The end and new beginnings of Dredd

[mcfonz]

Yup - Minty is a fantastic mini (as all of the charity miniatures have been). Seriously snap one up before you think on it and miss them altogether!

[aliensurfer]

Yup - Minty is a fantastic mini (as all of the charity miniatures have been). Seriously snap one up before you think on it and miss them altogether!

aye, all of the charity miniatures have been superb (gutted I missed out on the tank girl tank) and buy them now from the top bloke Dags whilst you can - and it all goes to a great cause.

[Ulfhednar]

Re Minty after diving in to catch up on the range I think I'm going to have to sell something (like a kidney) to recover my finances before I can afford to buy much else right now. But it's a possibility I will.

Meanwhile, anyone know if the running cadet has ever been on sale, found one at a normal figure price but won't post UK so a load of trouble with go betweens to get hold of. Was it Kickstarter only?

And I've found a Texas-City Mechanismo :-)

http://shop.eastridingminiatures.co.uk/gg24-1964-p.asp

(28mm scale, don't know if it's over sized, or whether it's resin or metal, all their unpainted photo's are that green stuff).

[mcfonz]

I think they'll be fine Ulf.

Have a look around their ranges as well. A couple of the golgo island types might make good dead waste types. The corporate wars minis may offer some nice options for things as well; Interpol - city def, enforcers as detectives or hired types, slicks a bloc gang?

I think I have seen some conversions of plastic space marines into Arbites so I don't think it'd take much to tweak those into judges.

Honestly, as Andy has well demonstrated, I think there are some decent alternatives out there that may offer a bit more uniformity.

[Muzfish4]

Just wired my ten quid for Minty via the miracle of Paypal. Lovely looking miniature for which I have a few ideas.

[Ulfhednar]

Other than East Meg I've found figures available for all the main scenarios / enemies I wanted to do. Found a seriously perfect gang of figures to play a force of Bladerunner type biomechs, and cultists, zombies, cursed earth, street gangs are all good. But finding forces that fit with East Meg judges (not as judges but as their supporting forces), matching the futuristic uniform, the comic style of the figures, and the heroic 28mm scale (that is slightly larger than true 28mm like Konflikt 47), is a real problem, and it's plain bad I have no female East Meg judge. But other than that it's doable and fun trying to make it work.

But, it would have been much better if instead of things like Judda and even the ape gang that are quite niche (definitely enthusiast and hard to fit into other non Dredd games), they'd done competitively priced plastic (or even metal, but still variable on sprue as unit builders) box sets of East Meg militia, Citi-Def, Meg1 citizens (normal, rioting, armed, and separately as zombies etc), cultists etc, they'd have sold really well to Dredd customers but would also have bridged it for people into other games to buy from this range for their other games, becoming more aware of it as they pick from it and maybe starting them getting drawn into the game proper. I've looked at tons of other games ranges for figures to pull volume from (for better price, availability, and variation), I can't imagine there's been much of that the other way around, with people finding things in this range useful for other games.

At least in terms of volume or best price, but there are a lot of real quality individual character figures that I think would be highly desirable in other games like pulp fiction or Cthulhu, like Oola Blint, the Executioner, Bat Burglar, Vid reporter, werewolf, Sabbat, gangster & blitzer etc, but you never see them positioned as pulp fiction, only ever described as Dredd. I bet there's a lot of character figures in this range pulp fiction gamers would have wanted if they'd only known they existed. Think this has passed many by by being so Dredd enthusiast focused, it has / had much more potential than just that.

[Ulfhednar]

The crazyness continues.

Altsain just put more on ebay, Citi-Def, Brit Cit Judges, Eletric Cordons, a load of lawmasters etc. I now have spare lawmasters for dismounted models, including 2 Medi Judge & Tech Judge lawmasters. But still no East Meg reinforcements.

edit - and earlier on that's now sold out, it seems they had 2 Brit Cit lawmasters (Iron Lions) with Cal Hab judge riding, never released, and a 2 person punk biker gang.

[Major_Gilbear]

Hit-n-miss quality sculpts, very average casting quality, changes to the boxed contents, and massive delays in releasing the KS stuff to retail have been major hurdles for the Dredd skirmish game to overcome in terms of being a viable model range. To expect specific and distinctive plastic or multi-part models of any reasonable quality for a project of this size is asking faaaaar too much.

Also, I really don't think that the range was very popular - and Mongoose's rep in how they handle miniatures games probably left a lot of backers/potential players feeling cautious. As I said earlier in this thread, I only backed very cautiously for two boxes (because I had my doubts), and felt pretty miffed when one of the boxes had the number of models in it reduced and the removed models sold as separate blisters later.

Finally, I also feel that far too many of the KS's resources were focused on models that 99% of people were never going to need/want/buy/play with (like all the big vehicles - the Manta especially). Yes, it's cool they did them. Yes, the folks who got them were (presumably) very happy with them. But in relation to a gang-based skirmish game, that's like making Knight Titan models or Baneblade superheavy tanks for Necromunda! 

[stone-cold-lead]

I think manufacturers doing these big almost full figure ranges through Kickstarter are shooting themselves in the foot somewhat when it comes to the longevity of a product line. Putting everything out there as part of the Kickstarter means that people who are big fans and are going to buy big will probably do so with the Kickstarter to get a bargain. By the time those models get to retail I'm sure sales must be little more than a trickle. That's not good for ensuring that a range stays active.

I made the gross mistake of backing Palladium's Robotech Kickstarter some years ago and they also did the full model range (or at least promised it). Eventually the game and some of the model sets were delivered and also went to retail but the game died in an instant pretty much. There are a few reasons why that happened but I'm sure that most people who were interested in a Robotech miniatures game backed the Kickstarter anyway and likely had little need of picking up much else in store (or the desire to do so given Palladium's handling of things and the general shit show that was the models!).

[dieselmonkey]

Yes, it's cool they did them. Yes, the folks who got them were (presumably) very happy with them.

I wasn't, look at the casting and striations on this turd, it's bloody awful...



I made the best of it I could, but as the rest of the range left me so thoroughly disappointed, I decided to use it for my Necromunda Arbites, I can't see myself doing anything with the drawer of lead I got through the KS, let alone starting the MC1 table I'd planned on.

http://port-imperiale.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/the-blue-turd-arbites-and-mine-least.html

[eilif]

I wasn't, look at the casting and striations on this turd, it's bloody awful...



I made the best of it I could, but as the rest of the range left me so thoroughly disappointed, I decided to use it for my Necromunda Arbites, I can't see myself doing anything with the drawer of lead I got through the KS, let alone starting the MC1 table I'd planned on.

http://port-imperiale.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/the-blue-turd-arbites-and-mine-least.html

That's pretty bad!
Looks like they didn't bother to sand down the striations before turning it into what looks like a sub-par cast.  Sorry to see that you got stuck with that dookie.

Love your Squat Convoy by the way!
Do you happen to have a link showing how you made the hovercar taxi"

[dieselmonkey]

Love your Squat Convoy by the way!
Do you happen to have a link showing how you made the hovercar taxi"

Heh, cheers!

The taxi is just a pound shop diecast car with some jets and other odds I found in the bits box glued to it, that's all there is to it!

There's a slightly better shot here:

[Wachaza]

Sad that a pound shop car and Curtis's cheap as chips resin casts are better cast with better quality control than Mongoose could manage. Curtis wouldn't send that out except as part of a bargain miscast.job.

[Ulfhednar]

Re the range and it being a kickstarter, it looks almost like Mongoose just did this to fulfil personal ambitions of creating models they personally wanted, and with that achieved have stepped out, almost like they're retiring from it. It's like the commercial side was just a vehicle rather than the point, there's loads of ways this could have been made much more successful / profitable / sustainable (but not without compromising uber enthusiasts over the range, or at least speed of delivery with niche stuff last). But tbh if personal rather than commercial was their reason then good for them, I think it's still done the hobby a favour. This Dredd range is like the hobby used to be, an enthusiast execution that's delicate but full of character and charm, pulling you into the figure rather than the figure pushing itself at you (like the pre slotta Runequest2 figures were). Got me back into it, and it will be useful and viable to me in ways 40k or generic gaming wouldn't be, because that stuff isn't cool unless you're in the hobby, it's not so obviously tongue in cheek fun, it wouldn't interest others to get involved nearly as much as Dredd would, or Cthulhu, or Hitler-Bots with she-wolf guard etc, it's slightly dark and so sexy (but not serious or gratuitous or ugly, still tongue in cheek / innocent / decent) vampy pulp fiction that most everyone can relate to as fun, it's obviously adult in a way most gaming isn't unless you're already into it. For what it's worth (and I think it is of real worth) the range only exists thanks to Mongoose.

Quality in production issues aside (as I don't know enough to comment, other than it's not like they're unique for having issues, Citadels Lawmaster's were a disaster and lots of their metal kits were poorly fitting) and assuming people get what they should out of KS, I don't think anyone can have lost out by it. If this is the permanent end of the range (and I'm beginning to think it is), this stuff is only ever going to be worth more than it cost, because Dredd isn't a fad, there's always demand.

I think it's same with Rogue Trooper (not necessarily for GI's but for Nu Earth, sci-fi WW1 gaming), if that's gone too (without ever even being on general sale), those figures the KS's got will be worth more than they paid for them. I can't see how you can lose backing iconic cult titles like this, however disappointing it is if they fall short of what you hoped for and / or are discontinued.

[mcfonz]

I think manufacturers doing these big almost full figure ranges through Kickstarter are shooting themselves in the foot somewhat when it comes to the longevity of a product line. Putting everything out there as part of the Kickstarter means that people who are big fans and are going to buy big will probably do so with the Kickstarter to get a bargain. By the time those models get to retail I'm sure sales must be little more than a trickle. That's not good for ensuring that a range stays active.

I made the gross mistake of backing Palladium's Robotech Kickstarter some years ago and they also did the full model range (or at least promised it). Eventually the game and some of the model sets were delivered and also went to retail but the game died in an instant pretty much. There are a few reasons why that happened but I'm sure that most people who were interested in a Robotech miniatures game backed the Kickstarter anyway and likely had little need of picking up much else in store (or the desire to do so given Palladium's handling of things and the general shit show that was the models!).

I can see both sides of the coin here.

I agree that KS's that try to do too much can look popular initially and then find that the KS investors are 'it'.

I actually don't think that has to be the issue, but I think the length of time it takes to get such a large KS to the pledgers is. So it looks like around a year is max. Longer than that and people lose interest in what they have backed, which means the initial interest generated by the KS is wasted. And you end up with the following dwindling before you have even started.

So the more you offer, the longer it is going to take to get to your customers - not to mention the more chance of slip ups and delays.

Mantic and others seem to have developed a way around this with sending out "waves" of product. So with the Walking Dead they have sent out the starter sets in wave 1 with wave 2 etc having expansions. For me this is clever. It means they have prioritised items, get them out to us the gamers to play with and keep us occupied and the interest fed until the next wave when we'll have had a chance to get to grips with the game and maybe painted the miniatures.

Dredd has taken how long to forefill?

The only other thing to consider is the license. If you have a license you probably do want to throw out as much as you can in one hit. In this case it has taken years, people have on the whole not been impressed with what has landed at their feet or how long it has taken. As a result I don't think as a game or a range it ever picked up.