The end and new beginnings of Dredd

[Ulfhednar]

A bit off topic but the thread is active with knowledgeable people so I'll ask. I bought a three figure set of the (supposedly old) Titan judges. (One of my first ever figures was the Titan Dredd my parents ordered out of the comic for my birthday or Christmas, it arrived with a bent gun and when I tried to straighten it, it broke off. I was like 7 or 8, massively traumatic, been carrying the scar ever since and always wanted a not broken one. So Dredd, Anderson, & Death turned up on ebay in an auction for starting price £10 total, badly listed so no one else noticed and bid, bargain. I've received them and they're in fantastic condition, but they sound like they have tin in them, there's a ring to them if you tap them with your nail and they are super strong. It's not how I remember the one I had, I thought it was softer flexible lead alloy like normal mini's are.

Does anyone know about these, is that metal right or are they knock off recasts? For the price I don't actually mind, I didn't buy them as a collector and they do the display job just as well. The only other Dredd like this I saw was £40+ and can't afford that for just something sentimental. Or is that metal right (maybe that's why the gun snapped on the one I had as a kid because although strong it's brittle rather than flexible)?

[Ulfhednar]

have you ever actually played Judge Dredd? The reason I ask is you seem to be really into getting everything when to put it bluntly 90% of those minis will never be used in a game ever.

If it is some pokemon gotta have them all thing with the minis then fair enough.

At the end of the day though you don't need most of the figs they made at all. Most of the non ganger figures fall into the mercenary category meaning they get used once in a blue moon at best and never at worst and then add to that about 2/3 of the stuff they made was far to overpowered for the game they made it for.

Most games of dredd is 500-1000pts and over that I suspect it would start to break badly.

It is a small gaming board skirmish game with a very small amount of figures. 10 gangers vs 2 judges on bikes sort of thing.

If you really want to do apocalypse war style fighting between MC1 and EM1 judges I would choose another rule system for a start.

Now the next bit is my personal opinion and I don't expect you to change yours.

The only figures you actually need to make dredd look totally 'official' is some judges. A bonus would be angel gang and judge death and pals and some fatties because fat men in miniature are hard to find. Every other fig can be proxied far too easily. Eureka minis for instance do entire gangs of assorted apes. More than enough variants and species and far nicer than the mongoose ones. Robots are everywhere, muties are a dime a dozen, gangers are a dime a dozen etc etc.

I have played metric crap tons of dredd and have yet to use a single official figure, still was judge dredd in every respect though.

I have the rules but not played it or really looked at them properly yet. I also have the original Dredd roleplaying game with all the stuff, played loads of that back in the day. I intend to pick from both that and Mongoose Dredd rules and merge into original 40k and wargame it on a 7x5 with around 50 or so figures per side, for games perhaps a few hours a day over several days. Will probably look at playing Meg 1, ruins of Meg2 and cursed earth. I got some Infinity Kazaks to try and bolster the East Meg numbers to match Meg1 but they're just too military and sensible (and their scale varies like mad), overall they break the spell of it being 2000AD. So I think I'm better just sticking with Warlord Dredd figures and allying East Meg with robots & street gangs & Apes etc. It doesn't have to make sensible sense just keep the 2000AD immersion and be fun :-) And lots of different little armies like East Meg, gangs, cultists will give lots of options to mix it up so it shouldn't get tired.

I've seen other manufacturers apes and remember the old Citadel ones, many are great, but I just really like the Mongoose style and they all work together. And I was able to get the Ape gang for £17.50 inc shipping off Altsain on ebay, will use 6 of the figures, less than £3 each, I think it's good enough value. Lots of others do have great gangers & robots etc and if they scale I'll be using some for definite. But East Meg are just too stylised to proxy for, they're like something out of 60's Star Trek, fit more with Pulp figures Radon Zombies than future war Soviet soldiers.

And Altsain has put up their latest listings, a great value pack of Judges (with the accountant judge and Meg2 Judge in), a couple of electric cordons, but those 2 are repeats of what they put up last week, and the rest Traveller books. Looks like that's it for the last Dredd stock.

edit -  I do get the collectors bug (I'm a hunter rather than a farmer), but I reckon only on stuff worth collecting. I think this is, I think there's a generation in / approaching middle age who grew up with Dredd, over the next decade or so they'll be increasingly looking for hobbies as their kids move out and they approach retirement, being sentimental, looking to reconnect with old friends and find social things to do with them, some will return to old interests, childhood ambitions about miniatures & Dredd & stuff. It's proper cult and most of all for a generation that's likely to become increasingly reinterested in it again, in UK at least, I think it has more legs than almost anything else miniature wise out there.

edit - I do get what you mean, stick Dredd / a few Judges in a game with other figures and their identity is so strong, it's suddenly all 2000AD. And I think if you gamed a lot that would work great. But I'm going to be gaming much less than most, perhaps only a few times each year with old friends but when I do, I want it to be right and as immersive as possible.

[Ulfhednar]

:-) It's because it's generation X, it's real, doesn't take itself too seriously, is tongue in cheek, not contrived or on the make trying to be attractive & popular, it's not sold out and is a peer with it's audience, doesn't get old, it matures and gets better. But in particular, for the first generation who were introduced to it and grew up with it, it's massive because they were the most gen X and so in tune with it, cuz it changed sci-fi for them (from trying to be profound to realism) and it happened to them all together so it's something they can share. Though like you say, every generation can get it and I bet they will keep on doing.

[n815e]

Rule sets come and go, but your collection can be with you until you die.

[Ulfhednar]

Ebay Altsain, there's a last load just gone on

Edit - Missed the bags of random Norts (someone grabbed the lot), but got a bag of Oz trikes for £10 (!) I am Mr Trike (it looks like I'll have spare I will swap or pass on at non inflated prices). And a new unreleased Dredd figure that looks easily best Judge anyone's ever done (imo, though there's still 1 Citadel with Mk1 Lawgiver that may just edge it), so they were capable of doing bombshell figures (though to be fair there are already a few in the range, Heroes of Meg1 has some really excellent stand out Judges). I can't believe this range isn't going to end up back on retail eventually with someone, there's too much good & new stuff.

I guess a kickstart figure (they posted the pic upside down, no clue at all how to flip it).

[n815e]

That's a lovely model.
It's a good thing you got a hold of it.

[Ulfhednar]

I hit lucky for once :-) It's tempting to cash in, I was watching the listings as that last batch appeared and there were 4 of those, some other rare stuff you could definitely sell on at profit, but I only bought 1 and what else I needed personally (though it has involved having to buy bundles like on the Trike where I'm duplicating some stuff). I've not seen many people on the make with this stuff yet (least of all Mongoose) and I hope it stays like that. There's also the very real chance this is just a blip and it will all be back in production and retailed by someone else (maybe Warlord on their own) soon enough, so buying to sell on for profit at inflated prices cuz it's OOP isn't a safe idea. I will definitely have spare of various things once I've sorted through.

edit - re the figure in particular, it's been made for a reason, it can't have been cheap to commission, if it's not part of the kickstart and isn't proof the range has a future and that someone will take it on, maybe it's going to be a gift to kickstarter's as it all ends (it was listed as just never released, which I think just means never retailed)? But whatever hopefully in the long run it's not going to be so rare anyone's unable to get one and left disappointed.

edit again - and I wouldn't be surprised if Warlord are taking at least some of it on. There's just too much new saleable stuff. And I got to buy a weird bundle off ebay a few days back, the starter set (which I needed) and 7 box sets all new, at exactly the 50% or less price Warlord had sold them for in their sale, like someone had bought a load to sell at profit by it being OOP, got wind it wasn't going to be for long and moved their stuff on quick. It stood out as wrong for being new, for being a collection a player wouldn't have bought but an obvious stock grab, and for being way too cheap for what 2nd hand player bundles go for (although those prices are down right now cuz fire sales have saturated market, it will come back).

[OSHIROmodels]

Are we going to see any of your figures painted or in action?

cheers

James

[Ulfhednar]

Yes :-) Though I think it may take some months for me to paint some up. I haven't painted in years and I'm going to have to learn all over again. And there's so many new kinds of paint products, inks and washes and stuff. At least the paint isn't going OOP though and I can be relaxed about it :-P

edit - actually this was one of the appeals with Dredd. How clean / unbusy the range is, the standard uniforms, visors rather than eyes, if I can work on a couple of uncomplicated judges till I've got to an ok standard I take that onto a lot more figures and hopefully work my way back up to more difficult things.

[MongooseMatt]

Yes I'm not criticising Mongoose to a serious degree I'm glad they did the range in the first place, and not that I know but I only hear good things about them being straight.

Thank you for the kind words, Ulfhednar.

I appreciate this is a bit of a blow for dedicated fans of Dredd (and Rogue Trooper) but the problem, fundamentally, is... we have never made any money out of Dredd. I mean really, aside from the core rulebooks for the RPGs, I am not sure there was ever much actual profit - it seems to be just a bit too niche when you look at it from a worldwide perspective (UK strong, Europe marginal, pockets in Australia and the US).

Basically, we did it because we like it and when you have a gaming company, well, what is the point if you can't do the things you love, eh?

This carried Dredd for us over 15 years (which is a helluva span for a licence - they normally go in three year periods) but, as they say, all good things come to an end.

Yes, we had plans in how to carry things on. Hondo-Cit Judges, Mad East Meg Scientists that could brainwash enemy models, a second edition that would really open up the types of games you could play and we never got round to the Eldster gang that I always promised myself.

However, at the end of the day, none of that was going to bring in the royalties that Rebellion (quite rightly) believe Dredd deserves, and our own efforts really are better off focussed on our core games (Traveller and Paranoia - the latter of which, incidentally, really rocks with the new edition!).

As soon as the decision was made to terminate the licence, I contacted another company to let them know what was happening, as I had a feeling they might have been interested - and we'll see what happens with that. Fingers crossed something happens there (and soon!), so Dredd fans may be well-served in the near future. If it does, I will be among them, this time as a customer.

Oh, and as for the Kickstarter pledges (both Dredd and Rogue), we have not shafted anyone yet in 15 years of business, and we are not going to start now. Everything has been sculpted and is waiting to be cast by our friends at Ainsty and Warlord. Everyone will get everything they pledged for, and that is a promise from me to you.

[robh]

our own efforts really are better off focussed on our core games (Traveller and Paranoia - the latter of which, incidentally, really rocks with the new edition!).

Any chance that as you don't now have to support the Dredd figure line we can see a Paranoia range to support the RPG?

[Ulfhednar]

I'm a very big fan of what you've done with (and for) Dredd & the whole 2000AD thing, I just wish I'd got onto it sooner instead of catching the tale end. I think, certainly hope 'they' will take it on, it has too much going for it for them not to, though I guess it's as much to do with Rebellion and them possibly being misunderstanding over it's real benefit to them & how to work it. I think they must be less and have less going for them without you and your teams input and endeavours through the licence.

Yes Paranoia figures would be excellent, would fit right in, security guards and robots. And Grizzly's, they'd do for East Meg Holo's.

[MongooseMatt]

Any chance that as you don't now have to support the Dredd figure line we can see a Paranoia range to support the RPG?

Well.

This has been talked about

The thing is, miniatures to support an RPG don't really work (there are, obviously, exceptions), especially for something like Paranoia - and especially the new edition which... well, wait until you see it, you'll understand. In my own opinion, it is the best Paranoia yet (James Wallis really did a job on it), but suitable for miniatures support it ain't.

We did do a small range of Paranoia miniatures before, and I thought they were quite good (the Int Sec guys were brilliant), but they weren't a massive success.

For Paranoia miniatures, you really need a Paranoia miniatures game - and that is a toughie. I mean, it needs to be funny, right? It needs to make players, well, paranoid. It needs to be Paranoia, not just some skirmish games with Troubleshooters in it.

Not easy.

But, earlier this year, we hit upon an idea. We now think we know how to at least approach a Paranoia miniatures game, and that is a start.

It won't happen soon. We have the first and second wave of support for the new RPG to get through first, along with some pretty ambitious ideas for Traveller (and now it looks like Victory at Sea is rearing its head once more). And then there is the small matter that we just plain won't do miniatures ourselves any more (we know it is not where our talents lie and, frankly, there are other companies who do them better, so we will rope one of them into the fold).

I think it is probably two years away. But we have the idea on how to do it now. And that, for a Paranoia miniatures game, is probably the hardest bit.

[Andrew May]

The Paranoia Kickstarter is only 18 months overdue with no confirmed delivery date...

[MongooseMatt]

The Paranoia Kickstarter is only 18 months overdue with no confirmed delivery date...

It is at print right now.