Swabian League

[Arlequín]

It does mean I don't have to look at the books twice though.  

As I said above, the Flemish pikes appear to have been approximately of a range of between 4-6 metres in length. I have no idea why each city bought two different lengths, unless it was to present a thick and even hedge of points. At Guinegate in 1479 the Flemish were apparently formed in two blocks of around 5,000 men each and stiffened by some men at arms (some sources say 200) who had not fled when Maximilian's 'division' of men at arms was broken by those of the French.

The Flemish were not entirely pikemen though, they had a significant proportion of men with pole weapons too. How these integrated with the pikemen I have no idea. As was the case in most battles involving the Flemish, they appear to have stood on the defensive and waited for the French to attack. For my money pike-armed troops with little training would do exactly that, moving them around would be a disaster waiting to happen.

As for the French 'piques', I have no idea what length their weapons were before 1480, but when the 'Swiss' were contracted to train the Bandes, pikes were apparently purchased from them too. I assume they were whatever length Swiss pikes usually were. Louis XI was an employer of some 6,000 Swiss Reisläufer from 1477, but it seems only some 600 were part of the battle line at Guinegate.

The French infantry (piquetier, voulgier, arbeletier and archers) at Guinegate came off worst against the Flemish and have a poor reputation as a result. Why they lost could be for several reasons, one of which might be that their 'piques' were shorter than those of the Flemish; or that they were really poor troops, which is what tradition claims.

I'm quite in agreement with Condottiere's remarks about Swiss 'hillbillies' and a propensity for violence. Hiring out your indolent and thuggish youth is one way to keep them out of trouble. Characteristics apart the great victories against the Burgundians were with roughly even numbers at Grandson, they somewhat outnumbered the Burgundians at Murten and Charles's army at Nancy barely rates being termed an army, and was massively outnumbered too. The Swiss were good, but I think we do tend to aggrandise them in wargaming mythology a bit too much.  

[bluechi]

same thing with the english bow ;-D

[Condottiere]

Will reply soon to the posts concerning Confederates and pikes aka longspears...

Back on topic...

Towns and Defence in Later Medieval Germany by David Eltis.

Can't read German, but I did find this book: http://www.thorbecke.de/tcpdf/tmp_infoblatt/978-3-7995-5224-0.pdf

German wiki on Swabian League has more info than the English version: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schw%C3%A4bischer_Bund

LEVY OF TROOPS FOP; WARS IN BOHEMIA, 1422
Some 60 years and an unrelated conflict, but the contributing towns listed in the levy were associated with the 2nd Swabian league of 1488, so should give a general idea of the size of the contingents. 

[bluechi]

After reading description this book gives informations of the structure and organisation of the swabian league and not really over the landsknechts, tacticals , outfits and and and....the most popular book in german is the "Heereswesen band1" and the book "landsknechte" there are a lots of jnfos for this therms with pictures. In wiki you can find a list of the knights and dukes with there heraldiks.....sorry for my bad english....lost a lot of dictionary since i was in down under...so don't worry

I take a look in these books at the next days and hope  can make an undarstanding translation....wfor the open questions.

[bluechi]

Landsknechte (Douglas Miller and John Richard)
Heerwesen der Neuzeit band1 (Georg Ortenburg)

Think the landsknechte gives an english version.

[Arlequín]

same thing with the english bow ;-D

I agree completely, but let us not even go there, it never ends well as a debate. 

Yes, back on topic. 

[bluechi]

so...ah short cut of informations

1504 where from 100 Landsknechts
        70 pikeman
        20 Hellebarden
        10 gunners
but it changes fast.....more gunners and more pikes

in 1550 one unit (Regiment) where maybe 10 Fähnleins (1 Fähnlein 300-500men)so a Regiment could have 3000-5000 men. the money makes the music.

Frundsberg fähnlein where 380men and a regiment got 18.
generell for the medieval, an group (fähnlein) had 300-600 man,sometimes 1000. Most time something around 400.
The french Groups most time smaller certainly 200.



altough get good Information is to Google the "Appenzeller war" and "Ritterbund Sankt Jergenschild" or "Sankt Georgenschild"....was a Knight and City league who was bevor the swabian league and go into it.

the first Landsknecht army 1487-1488 where an army of 12000 man infantry and 1200 horse to keep bohemian and the bavarian(Wittelbacher) dukes under controll. Think that was an Standing force...first comander was duke Eitelfritz of Hohenzollern. Maximillian wants 20 000 for the war against France and for Italy. But the cities sad no, to expensive.

battle of calliano 8.10.1487 think that was the first battle of the landsknechts.

the story and reflections of "Paul Dolstein" are very interesting....
and the Story of the "Theuredank" (Knight Epos)
"Bigerli von Heudorf" is altough intreresting story
here an list on Wiki "Liste schwäbischer Adelsgeschlechter" all Knights,lords,dukes and wathever with Heraldik and links to the different persons and history.
"Hans Talhoffer" swordmaster middel to end 15 century many ilustrations of handling different weapons in the net(Google).
To find more over technics, weapons etc...than check out "Wiktenauer" maybe the complete knowledge of masters and books , illustrations etc. and in english to....
Niklaus von flue is altough really interessting person for the swiss.