Swabian League

[Phillius]

Hi,

I am trying to find detailed information about the make up of the Swabian League forces at the end of the 15th century. I understand there was in theory a "standing" army of 13,000 foot and 1,300 horse (more of a commitment to field these numbers than an actual standing army I imagine), but that there was also extra recruiting over and above that, which presumably meant mercenaries. I have seen reference to mercenaries from the low-countries, which I guess may have been some form of feudal levey by Maximillian, and I assume there were lansknechts.

But if anyone can point me to a source with more detail, I would greatly apreciate it.

Cheers

Phil

[Arlequín]

I can't help with a good source, but from what I've read in various places, a Low Countries 'feudal levy' would be out of the question; not least because Maximilian's claim to his wife's inheritance prompted frequent fall outs between himself and the various cities of the region. He was actually held prisoner at one point and subsequently Ghent famously rebelled against his rule. The cities' usual argument was that his infant son Phillip was the Duke of Burgundy and Maximilian had merely been the consort of the late Duchess Marie.

Maximilian began raising proto-landsknechts by voluntary enlistment as early as 1486 in the Low Countries, drawing men from there and the Western German areas like Cleves. The idea was to end reliance on the truculent Low Countries communal levies, that had consistently let him down in the 1470s and early '80s. After Guinegate in 1479 for example, he wanted to complete the destruction of the French and take back lost ground, but his levies just went home.

Rather than levies of men, Maximilian would have extorted levies of money from the Low Countries, which he would then use to commission 'captains' like Frundsberg, to raise bodies of 'Lantknecht' (or Lanzknecht as it is sometimes rendered, possibly due to the pikes carried) as they were termed at first. It was also fairly common across Europe at the time for cities to hire professionals for their militias, levying money from their citizens, rather than their citizens actually serving themselves.

Hope that helps some.   

[Phillius]

That's great, thanks Arlequin.

[Arlequín]

You're welcome! I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but what little I know of the Low Countries is off the back of my own interest in the Franco-Burgundian War of 1477-82; which is itself a work in progress to put it mildly.

As for the Swabian League itself, what I know could be written on the back of a postage stamp, providing I wrote in quite large letters. I'm not even sure there is that much on it in Germany itself, but hopefully somebody here will chip-in with more specialist knowledge and a ruck of references.

I can offer some best guesses, based on practices elsewhere. Despite the impression that there were differences across Europe, most practices regarding employment of troops were very similar, minor details aside and the time taken for ideas to spread when new ones were introduced.

Certainly the Swabian 'standing army' was almost probably a 'commitment to provide', in the same way as English indentures did the same thing during the Hundred Years War and Wars of the Roses though. The French 'ordonnance' system was similar and its own 'standing army' was actually an army renewed yearly by contracts, although effectively men usually served from one contract to the next without interruption. Commanders out of favour just didn't get their contracts renewed (or had the numbers specified reduced) and presumably their men signed up with somebody else if they were able.

I imagine that a fictitious 'Baby-Eating Bishop of Baden' would agree to produce x-number of men of varying types. He would raise these through his own secular chief-tenants/vassals, each of whom would have small retinues (measured in terms of 'lances' or spieß of two or more men, as was common across most of Europe) of their own. The towns within his domain that were not 'frei' would also have a commitment to provide men for his use. The Bishop could therefore produce a combined force of men at arms (and their mounted retainers) and a contingent of urban militia and/or mercenaries on foot, in a quite short space of time (as little as a week perhaps).

Combine that with other Grafs and whatnot, each with their own contingents, and you effectively have a large military force in waiting, but not actually permanently in arms. Certainly 1,300 horse and 13,000 foot across the League, could be raised and mustered in one place in a matter of weeks, travel time permitting.

Recruitment of mercenaries followed a similar pattern. Someone like Frundsberg would network through his own subordinates and associates of previous campaigns, and when a contract came he would be in touch with them. They would whip-up old comrades too and the whole would set about recruiting new meat for the grinder, the whole being mustered at a convenient place and where oaths would be taken and money paid out to the new recruits, veterans and commanders alike. There were apparently a few 'permanent' companies however, who essentially travelled from war to war, across most of Europe.     

[bluechi]

Did you need a list of Knights and cities who belong to the swabian legue ? Frundsberg was later in history. Landsknechts troops where built and reformed in the late 1480....after the burgundian war.... the monarchs in europe where shocked about the new infantry tactics of the gewalthut. Long speers in combinated with hellbards makes cavalry ineffectiv. The Problem was the money to hold troops in action (fall of rome). Maximillian reconised that this new infantry tactic in combinated with artillary are the future....and the Knights are history.....the most landsknechts Comes from the area of Baden,Alsace(Sundgau), Bodensee, Franken, Kraichgau and of course swabian, Bavaria and habsburgian area....all of these near the swiss cantons in the north.

[Arlequín]

Frundsberg's career began in 1492, he was a 'captain' during the Swabian War of 1499 and by 1505 was commanding all the landsknechts in the Burgundian Netherlands. A year prior to that he had his own regiment and served in both Germany and Milan.

[bluechi]

1492. officer in the force of his father in the army of Markgraf Friedrich 2 of Brandenburg-Ansbach.

1499 early. together with Goetz von Berlichingen("he can lik me on my back") officer in the swabian army against the swiss.

1499 late. comander of the swabian Forces against the French.

1504. upgrate to a Knight by Maximillian after the victory in the Landshuter war, the last war where a force take Hussit tactics.....(Pavese shilds in infantry units and war wagons)

and than...we know...the italian war

[bluechi]

sorry i Forget...

1513 battle of Creazzo...."Many enemys, a lot of honour" sorry for the bad translations.

[Condottiere]

Did you need a list of Knights and cities who belong to the swabian legue ? Frundsberg was later in history. Landsknechts troops where built and reformed in the late 1480....after the burgundian war.... the monarchs in europe where shocked about the new infantry tactics of the gewalthut. Long speers in combinated with hellbards makes cavalry ineffectiv. The Problem was the money to hold troops in action (fall of rome). Maximillian reconised that this new infantry tactic in combinated with artillary are the future....and the Knights are history.....the most landsknechts Comes from the area of Baden,Alsace(Sundgau), Bodensee, Franken, Kraichgau and of course swabian, Bavaria and habsburgian area....all of these near the swiss cantons in the north.

There was no shock among the monarchies, this wasn't the French Revolution...

There was nothing innovative about a combination of polearms: the pike was an Italian export...

The only thing the Confederates were good at was being aggressive and rushing in columns...

The effectiveness and dominance of cavalry is purely exaggerated... 

Charles the Bold repeatedly lost to the Swiss, because he was a bad general...

There were standing armies, but sizes and maintenance was determined based on access to resources...   

[Arlequín]

The armies of the Low Countries communes had been using massed pikes for some time. If there was any shock to the nobility it came at Courtrai in 1302.

Besides aggressiveness the Swiss apparently also drilled their militia, which at the time was 'revolutionary'. Everywhere else just conducted armour and weapon inspections, and an individual's competency with his weapon.

[Condottiere]

The armies of the Low Countries communes had been using massed pikes for some time. If there was any shock to the nobility it came at Courtrai in 1302.

Besides aggressiveness the Swiss apparently also drilled their militia, which at the time was 'revolutionary'. Everywhere else just conducted armour and weapon inspections, and an individual's competency with his weapon.

Courtai 1302 has more in common 1311 Battle of Halmyros, in that the defenders relied on the terrain to gain an edge: marshy ground.

The Italian Communal militias had been using various various types of polearms and longspears aka pikes, prior to 1302. The Confederates wouldn't adopt the pike in significant numbers till after 1422 Arbedo, in reaction to the longer reach of the lances of the dismounted cavalry - they fared similarly at Sempach 1386. Despite its flaws, John McCormack's One Million Mercenaries is a decent introduction of the evolution of the Confederacy.   

Swiss aggressiveness, which wasn't universally standard, since the country itself didn't exist at the time, was borne of isolated "redneck" or "hillbilly" culture and general lawlessness - more in common with other mountainous frontier inhabitants - compared with the rest of Western Europe. Regular militia drills weren't "revolutionary," as it was expected of communes, like the Flemish, for years prior to the emergence of the Confederacy - the surviving statutes should be city archives. Simply conducting weapon and armor inspections, along with an individual's competency, was part of the drilling process, but not in itself.         

The Confederates just got lucky in using massed columns...

[bluechi]

sorry we talk over "pike" this word exists since 1540-1560. The reach for speers who where taken in the early 15th century was 250-320cm. so you have to attack at first the horse than the Knight. After Arbedo the swiss (Uri and Luzern) make the Speer longer over 400cm and this in mass. altough they build bigger blocks...more than 3 Faehnlein in one block maybe 800-2000 manns....and build an gewalthaufen.outside Long speers and the Center Hellebarden and axes,swords and hammers.Other Forces where mixed. First time to use this tactic was the old zuricher war. ok... the Bold was an military idiot but the other great mecanerries like Hertneck bring this knowledge over the borders into different Forces.He saw this tactik first in the Waldshuter war. The Speer was the weapon of poor farmers and citizens.In Sempbach was the battlefield not good for horses and the swiss take Position bevor a forest and cut trees. although the Knights had armour and this was the problem for the second hit in the hot sun...the first hit was an Desaster for the swiss.

[bluechi]

altough the French armagnaken got an hard hit from 1500 swiss with that tactic in the battle of St Jakob an der Birs 1444.....They lost 4000 mans, the swiss 1484...and stopped the walk into the swiss area and go into the Sundgau to plunder. ("here, eat your own roses") and the stone hits the knight.

[Arlequín]

The second online conversation I've had about pikes in the same day.  

The preparations for war with France in 1477 saw Bruge ordering pike shafts of 4.5m and 6m in length, while Ghent ordered them in 4m and 5m lengths (or at least the 15th Century equivalent). Maximilian also facilitated the supply of 1,200 pike shafts of 6.7m to the 'English King' in 1483, which were made in Malines. The Swiss did not have the monopoly on real pikes.

The word 'pike' (in English) originates from the French 'pique', or possibly the Spanish 'pica' and can be found in use in England from as early as 1481, where 'pike shafts' (and the enigmatic 'morispike') are mentioned in store at Calais. Piquetier are mentioned as forming part of the Franc-Archers in the 1470s, although more than likely these were 'spearmen' and the 'pike' did not come until the Swiss began training the Bandes Francaise from 1480 to 1483.

The Swiss certainly pioneered offensive tactics with pikes en-masse and certainly the Flemish preferred defence with obstacles, they actually lost I seem to recall when they tried attacking.

I can't speak for the early period, but under the Burgundian dukes, any organised militia in Flanders effectively ceased to exist, especially after Ghent's revolt in 1453. I have found nothing to suggest that any musters were conducted after that time. In 1477 there was a massive purchase of weapons and armour by the cities, which were then sold to the citizens when they were called up by lottery to face the French. The only armed men at that point were the 'kaproenen' (wit, rood and bleuw) of Ghent, Bruge and Ypres, who were professional 'armed police' and only numbered in the hundreds. Certainly the batches of levies raised for Charles the Bold's campaigns were not felt to be of any real use, which might indicate their lack of training.

[bluechi]

second conversation ? hell....

how Long are the french and flemish pikes in the Center 15 century ? and how many mens in one Group ? think thats the question how effectiv they are.