Variations in livery between a knight, squire, and page, etc.?

[FifteensAway]

In building my Jousting set up it occurs to me I have no idea if there is a difference in the livery between what a knight might wear versus what his squire, any pages, or other members of the retinue might wear. 

I am building eight teams with each team having three knights, each knight having a squire, some team pages, a camp guard, a banner bearer and a few other folk serving the team.

Every knight should have his own tent and each team will have a little vignette like a cook or something similar.  Each team will have similar livery.  So, eight sets of livery matched figures, more or less.

So, anyone able to shed further light on the differences - if any - in the livery worn by a knight versus other members of the retinue?

Thanks!

And FYI, there will also be various general vendors with their own tents - at least blacksmiths and armorers but more likely - food vendors probably to keep the crowd fed. 

And then there will be some 'specials' like a set of three legendary knights that teams may have to face, etc.

[Hitman]

What rules will you be using? Sounds like a great idea!!

[FifteensAway]

For the jousting, Full Tilt.  Probably make modifications from those rules for the ground combat and the archery contests - keep it all as simple as possible.

[dadlamassu]

From what I remember being a page was the first step in training to be a knight.  Typically between age of 7 to about 14.  He may be the knight's son or that of another knight.  Similarly a squire was the second stage of training and was aged 14 or more. again he may be the son of the knight or another knight. 

As far as I can see on a Google image search the squire does not appear to be liveried as a matter of course.  That said, something like a tournament is different.  It is a showpiece.  In that case I would expect that they would be decked out in "Sunday Best".  So a simplified version of the knight's colours.  I doubt they would bear his coat of arms as they would not be entitled to do so, just his colours. Once trained and knighted they would bear their own coat of arms. 

[Atheling]

A knight would not have worn a livery he would have worn his own coat of arms particular to him- his identity on the battlefield of you like.

Men at Arms, Archers etc in his retinue might be given cloth to create a Livery, though the evidence for this is very scant and it's likely that only rich knights and the nobility would go as far as to dress the men who fought for them.

Just my tuppence but based on decades of research.

[dadlamassu]

Quite a discussion here about liveries in HYW

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=100764.0

[FifteensAway]

To quote dadlamsu re tournaments:" It is a showpiece.  In that case I would expect that they would be decked out in "Sunday Best".  So a simplified version of the knight's colours. "  Yeah, I'm thinking in that general direction.


To quote Atheling: "A knight would not have worn a livery he would have worn his own coat of arms particular to him- his identity on the battlefield if you like.

Men at Arms, Archers etc in his retinue might be given cloth to create a Livery, though the evidence for this is very scant and it's likely that only rich knights and the nobility would go as far as to dress the men who fought for them."  I rather thought this might be the case.

So, I think I will go with Coat of Arms for the nights and some sort Livery for the squires at least - and the tents and probably the camp guard.  Maybe the others in more mundane dress.

A little more on the teams with each having the following:

Three mounted knights on caparisoned horses, three dismounts to fight on foot.
Three squires on foot only.
Two pages.
Four armed camp guards (usually four of the same sculpt).
Four other other foot figures to include a standard bearer and three other servants to the knights.
One dead figure.
One knight on his downed horse.
One kneeling knight praying.  (26 pieces per team counting horses and dismounts)

For every two teams, a priest hearing prayers.

Have to determine if I have enough archers in my Robin Hood collection or need to add more - pretty sure I need more and may just buy enough to avoid having to trade in and out, three per team would be 24 and I could buy two packs of 12 and get there - but I do want maximum pose variety so maybe order extras.  Being in 15 mm keeps the cost way down.

I have at least 72 'dedicated' civilians for the galleries and/or roaming about the encampments.
I have on order a stage I plan to use along with the 3D printed tilt yard and galleries.
To go on that stage I have two sets of musicians, jesters, etc.

Then there are those 'specials' to add a little variety and perhaps some unpleasant surprises.  And some other bits and pieces to round it all out.

While the game with the contests is the "main event" all the rest adds color to it all and makes it more interesting to look at.  I'm hoping that extra effort with all the peripheral 'decor' will keep interest in the game up longer.

Oh, and I have a castle to host it all.

Thanks for the input.

[Basementboy]

Sounds good! Researching all the heraldry and symbology does make painting medievals something od a nightmare, but it's always worth it at the end