GoT Greyjoy project, Men at arms painted, plus Victarion.

[tomrommel1]

 

[Charlie_]

Oh wow, this is great! To be honest I wasn't quite sure how the Perry foot knights would work for Ironborn. But they do look fantastic, especially Victarion and all those in Greyjoy colours!

The way I see it, the Ironborn suffer from a real identity crisis, at least in the books. Are they vikings? Are they pirates? Or are they just like people from any other Westeros region, but with a heavier emphasis on seafaring? I think the latter makes the most sense, and you've made it look good.

[Mr.J]

Very nice! Lots of very inspirational ASOIAF threads at the moment. Your Ironborn are superb.

[Hupp n at em]

Oh wow, this is great! To be honest I wasn't quite sure how the Perry foot knights would work for Ironborn. But they do look fantastic, especially Victarion and all those in Greyjoy colours!

The way I see it, the Ironborn suffer from a real identity crisis, at least in the books. Are they vikings? Are they pirates? Or are they just like people from any other Westeros region, but with a heavier emphasis on seafaring? I think the latter makes the most sense, and you've made it look good.

Especially since, on the one hand, they'e supposed to be pretty poor.  But on the other hand, they live on the Iron Islands, so they've got lots and lots of iron around for arms and armor.  So I'd think that they wouldn't be the leather jerkin wearing Hollywood vikings they're often depicted as, and would be well equipped for war, at least.

[Charlie_]

Especially since, on the one hand, they'e supposed to be pretty poor.  But on the other hand, they live on the Iron Islands, so they've got lots and lots of iron around for arms and armor.  So I'd think that they wouldn't be the leather jerkin wearing Hollywood vikings they're often depicted as, and would be well equipped for war, at least.

Yes, in fact it's stated somewhere (in the official World Of Ice And Fire book I think) that they are actually known to be among the best smiths and armourers.

They maybe have a bit of an identity crisis in regards to ships as well. Obviously there is a lot of talk about longships, which suggests Vikings, but they are by far the only ships they use. There is a lot of talk of galleys, galleas, cogs.... I'm no expert on ships though. Surely the traditional 'norse longship' wouldn't have a cabin, yet Victarion is frequently described as going to his cabin on his own Iron Victory. And if his of all ships is not a longship, what does that say?

Interestingly, the last episode of the TV show had a very brief shot of them going to their ships. It definitely gave them more of a 'pirate' look and feel (albeit medieval pirate) rather than 'viking'.

I'm keen to see them portrayed as something other than cartoon vikings, but admittedly GRRM doesn't make it easy at times!

[Hupp n at em]

Yes, in fact it's stated somewhere (in the official World Of Ice And Fire book I think) that they are actually known to be among the best smiths and armourers.

They maybe have a bit of an identity crisis in regards to ships as well. Obviously there is a lot of talk about longships, which suggests Vikings, but they are by far the only ships they use. There is a lot of talk of galleys, galleas, cogs.... I'm no expert on ships though. Surely the traditional 'norse longship' wouldn't have a cabin, yet Victarion is frequently described as going to his cabin on his own Iron Victory. And if his of all ships is not a longship, what does that say?

Interestingly, the last episode of the TV show had a very brief shot of them going to their ships. It definitely gave them more of a 'pirate' look and feel (albeit medieval pirate) rather than 'viking'.

I'm keen to see them portrayed as something other than cartoon vikings, but admittedly GRRM doesn't make it easy at times!

I think some of that confusion stems from the fact that Ironborn coastal raids are conducted from their longships, which all Ironborn Houses have and are far more numerous, but they also mention "The Iron Fleet" which is their war fleet of 100 galleys.  I would guess that Victarion took some of the Iron fleet to cross the Narrow Sea as it's a far longer/more dangerous journey. Honestly I think GRRM does not sweat those kind of technical details the way a wargamer would.    In his defense, the innumerable prophesies and small hints that turn out to be foreshadowing are probably enough for him to keep track of as it is. 

[Charlie_]

I think some of that confusion stems from the fact that Ironborn coastal raids are conducted from their longships, which all Ironborn Houses have and are far more numerous, but they also mention "The Iron Fleet" which is their war fleet of 100 galleys. 

True.

Actually if we look at the history of ships through medieval Scandinavia it should give some sort of an 'answer'. I mean, Vikings and their longships wouldn't have just disappeared to be replaced by 'medieval' style ships overnight. I recently read the Osprey Men-At-Arms series book "The Scandinavian Baltic Crusades 1100-1500" which touched on the subject and had a few pics, I'm gonna go have another look...

[Hupp n at em]

True.

Actually if we look at the history of ships through medieval Scandinavia it should give some sort of an 'answer'. I mean, Vikings and their longships wouldn't have just disappeared to be replaced by 'medieval' style ships overnight. I recently read the Osprey Men-At-Arms series book "The Scandinavian Baltic Crusades 1100-1500" which touched on the subject and had a few pics, I'm gonna go have another look...

Paging Dalauppror 

[Jockjay]

Thanks for the comments lads, I really appreciate it.

My views on Greyjoy combat doctrine (which are not based on anything other than my wild ramblings), and what I am basing my force on:

It is well know that they are reavers and raiders, but at some point they MUST stand and fight. I imagine that they take to the longships young and learn how wage lightning war against small towns and villages. Warriors that show natural talent and gain renown may one day pay the iron price for some decent armor, which elevates their status within the community. My Force is based around Victarion's long journey to reave across the sea. In my mind he has drummed up support and many aspiring warriors joined to gain coin and renown fighting as part of his fleet. This includes noble fighters from other Iron born houses (my second MAA unit), these fighters have either paid the iron price for their arms/armor or had the skilled smiths of the Iron Isles create a custom set for them.

As for colours and regalia, I have kept it very basic, I no longer see the Iron born as Vikings etc. but a standard house in WOTR era war gear, with a slight emphasis on axes over swords. I'm sure I heard that Victarion has a cloak made to look like tentacles in Greyjoy colours (didn't one of you guys mention it here?), so I painted his bodyguard up to look similar as I am sure they have worked their way to such a lofty position and want to show it off.

I am currently painting a 12 man spear unit. I know this may be frowned upon but as I said earlier, eventually there will be a time the Iron born will have to fight a pitched battle, pitched battles mean potential cavalry. So, spears it is. The spearmen would be the lowliest of the warriors, or the slightly injured or infirm who cannot keep up with the shock troops. But every man must a place in battle when you are a mobile raiding force.

Just my 2p (or justification for painting whatever I like....)

[Silent Invader]

Great project  

It inspires me to make Greyjoys as my next big faction  

Ps: And I'd have done with spears too 

[Charlie_]

I like what you're thinking.

Another thing worth considering is that the Ironborn haven't always been about reaving all the time. In fact, ever since Aegon's conquest (ruled by the Greyjoys all that time) they have been relatively quiet. Aegon forbid them from reaving on the shores of Westeros, but permitted them to do it abroad. In the 'present day' of the books they have been reaving quite a lot under Balon's leadership, which led to two unsuccessful rebellions where he tried to bring back the 'old way'. The fact that he was wanting to bring it back suggests that they hadn't done much reaving in the preceding centuries. The World Of Ice And Fire Book tells how his father Quellon was more interested in integrating with the mainland, and wasn't a fan of the old way.

Prior to the conquest and the rule of the Greyjoys, the islands were ruled by House Hoare, who successfully conquered all of the Riverlands (Harren Hoare, ie Harren the Black, built Harrenhal). That era would certainly have seen them engaged in lots of land battles and 'traditional' warfare (they had a big war against the Storm Kings as well on the mainland as well).

I think the point is that the idea of the Ironborn as 'reavers' goes waaaaay back into the hazy past. It's a thing of the past. Since then, under various different kings and ruling houses, they have conquered territory on the mainland, been beaten down numerous times, and seen various rulers both want to make friends and integrate with the mainland and want to return to the mythical 'old way' of reaving (which usually ends badly for them).

[Jockjay]

An excellent clarification, many thanks. Well I have 24 models to go before my 24 point retinue is done, with another 24 models for 'options' but I am on holiday for a couple of weeks so things will be slowing down here I'm afraid.

[Charlie_]

I like what you're thinking.

Another thing worth considering is that the Ironborn haven't always been about reaving all the time. In fact, ever since Aegon's conquest (ruled by the Greyjoys all that time) they have been relatively quiet. Aegon forbid them from reaving on the shores of Westeros, but permitted them to do it abroad. In the 'present day' of the books they have been reaving quite a lot under Balon's leadership, which led to two unsuccessful rebellions where he tried to bring back the 'old way'. The fact that he was wanting to bring it back suggests that they hadn't done much reaving in the preceding centuries. The World Of Ice And Fire Book tells how his father Quellon was more interested in integrating with the mainland, and wasn't a fan of the old way.

Prior to the conquest and the rule of the Greyjoys, the islands were ruled by House Hoare, who successfully conquered all of the Riverlands (Harren Hoare, ie Harren the Black, built Harrenhal). That era would certainly have seen them engaged in lots of land battles and 'traditional' warfare (they had a big war against the Storm Kings on the mainland as well).

I think the point is that the idea of the Ironborn as 'reavers' goes waaaaay back into the hazy past. It's a thing of the past. Since then, under various different kings and ruling houses, they have conquered territory on the mainland, been beaten down numerous times, and seen various rulers both want to make friends and integrate with the mainland and want to return to the mythical 'old way' of reaving (which usually ends badly for them).

[Garanhir]

I particularly like the countercharging on the Greyjoy chap with the war hammer.