10mm, trying to grasp scale (warmaster)

[Davout]

Long time warmaster painter here. I will repeat the advice above and say that 10mm lends itself to simple bold schemes. One of the things I love about smaller scales is the fact that you can dispense with some of the fancier painting techniques simply because you will never see them on models so small. The unit effect is what you are going for. I use GW and Pendraken figs primarily.

This is a stand of Pendraken Hill Dwarfs


These are GW Empire models and Vampire Counts






One of the main differences between GW and Pendraken is that the GW figs come in strips while the Pendraken figs are individuals. 

[Major_Gilbear]

I agree that small scales (6mm and 10mm) benefit from brighter and bolder schemes. Too much detail in too many colours quickly drowns out the wider effect of your painting, whereas striking schemes with decent contrast and eye-catching spot colours are even more effective at these scales than at 28mm scale.

A dark undercoat/basecoat (doesn't need to be black, it can be dark blue/grey/brown/green/tan, etc), block in the base colours, and then a pass with some fairly broad bright highlights. Finally, pick out details like the banners and such. Any metals are usually best in a brighter tone, then washed, and then finished with a few spot highlights with the original metal colour.

For painting bigger/denser units, you can probably skip the highlights to ranks after the first, or maybe just apply them to the heads and weapon tops - you won't really see them much, and aside from saving you painting time, it makes the front ranks look even "brighter" and smarter by contrast.

I also think it's important to consider your intended basing, and then trying to choose a scheme that stands out a bit on it - again a "cheap-n-dirty" way of getting more contrast and visual mass without needing to actually do a whole lot. Examples would be say Dark Angels space marines on desert bases or Ultramarines on snow bases (for 6mm Epic), or something like Orcs on desert bases and Dark Elves on snow bases (for 10mm fantasy).

The base edges can also be in a different colour to the textured top - so a pale grey base for a mid grey sand texture on top, and patches of snow for a snowy base for example. For temperate greens, you only need to the base edges in a suitable green, and the tops can be any sort of brown/grey/green that looks nice with some flock patches added to it. The darker colours on the base tops help to "fill in" the gaps between models when you look at the unit, which again helps to give them a sense of mass.

I mostly do 28-32mm scale stuff nowadays (since I mostly play skirmish games), but I'm a huge fan of 6-10mm and greatly miss painting and modelling in that scale. 

[...] since it often takes me  2 or 3 weeks to get a package, ordering samples and then ordering the rest would be about a month or more of "down time" waiting anxiously to paint.  The alternative is possibly buying $100 worth of miniatures that will sit around until I sell them off for half of what I paid  (That's happened more than once). .

Shipping costs permitting, why not compromise and get a smaller force to test? So buy $30-40 of army to check over, test-paint, base, etc. That way it's easy to add more to the force with a second order if you like it, and you're not out a lot of money if you decide it's not for you and sell it on. It also means that you've go something to do in the meantime, and cuts out that "down time".

[Malamute]

If you're doing 10mm Fantasy  I don't think you can beat Copplestone Castings figures. The only issue being the range is very limited, but the detailing is lovely and the sculpts superb.

Here are my humble attempts at painting some of their Dwarves:







I must warn you as someone used to painting 28s, these nearly drove me insane as they are really tiny.

[grubman]

So I took everyone's advice and ordered some sample minis...well, that was the plan.  Somehow "samples" turned into a 1,000 point Orc and goblin army.  Oh well, moderation isn't one of my strong points.

I got the Orks from Kalistra, as planned, and finally decided on Magister Military for my Goblins.  Also picked up a sample pack for Empire and High Elves from Kalistra.  I know Kalistra run big (12mm), but I don't think it will matter where Orks vs. Gobbos  are concerned...and it will be nice to compare the two manufacturers and scale.

Well see how it goes.  I'm on vacation in a week with no plans...so hopefully they arrive by then.  It'll either be awesome...or $100 down the toilet.

[Major_Gilbear]

If you're doing 10mm Fantasy  I don't think you can beat Copplestone Castings figures. The only issue being the range is very limited, but the detailing is lovely and the sculpts superb.

This in general, but the limited range is a big issue. I really don't know why Mark doesn't sculpt any more at this scale, because it would not only do well, but would bolster sales of his current 10mm ranges (which are pretty incomplete) as well. 

So I took everyone's advice and ordered some sample minis...well, that was the plan.  Somehow "samples" turned into a 1,000 point Orc and goblin army.  Oh well, moderation isn't one of my strong points.

Good man! 

Personally, I hope that you like them and enjoy the project, and that you will write up your progress with them - your earlier Starguard adventures were very interesting reading.

[grubman]

Personally, I hope that you like them and enjoy the project, and that you will write up your progress with them - your earlier Starguard adventures were very interesting reading.

Thanks .  I've been in a hobby "slump" for some time.  I really need something (New) to reignite my passion.

[N.C.S.E]

You guys think you've got it bad, 3mm are worse! 

More seriously, I honestly think smaller scales are the far superior way for big battles. 28mm only works with very personal games, so fantasy, skirmishes etc where character is a big thing (Sharp Practise would fall under this category too). Otherwise, in my book, so long as you can tell there's a miniature there, the smaller the better.

[grubman]

Found an "if you do all the work and spend all the money, I'll play" opponent just now.  He's a role player who never played miniature wargames before...but that's where a lot of guys start.  I remember the "high" after I played my first real miniature game.

[DivisMal]

This in general, but the limited range is a big issue. I really don't know why Mark doesn't sculpt any more at this scale, because it would not only do well, but would bolster sales of his current 10mm ranges (which are pretty incomplete) as well. 

That's exactly my point! I have bought in on both the 10mm and the 15mm which are even better and have some models that can be used for both scales, i.e. The 15mm trolls and giants.

But for several years Mr Copplestone does not finish the ranges, so I have an incomplete Gondor army, though it is said the Half Elf Cavalry is just needing finishing touches, an incomplete 15mm Pict army without command and heroes and fairly complete 10mm Orc, Half Orc and 15mm Barbarians.

I'd immediately buy the dwarfs and nearly everything he would make just as long as he gives me the chance to buy a complete range and not just fractions!

[FierceKitty]

I'm no great painter, but I find I can get decent effects in 10mm without using ink washes or drybrushing. They do give a super effect on the table (and I've done lots of 6mm and 15mm in my time). I use them for virtually everything, from NKE to WWII.

P.S. If you get impatient waiting for parcels in the US, try ordering from Thailand!

[Major_Gilbear]

Found an "if you do all the work and spend all the money, I'll play" opponent just now.  He's a role player who never played miniature wargames before...but that's where a lot of guys start.  I remember the "high" after I played my first real miniature game.

Well the nice thing about armies like this is that there are lots of rule sets to play with, so even if he likes the experience but not so much the game, you still have other options. Kings of War for example is supposed to be good at this scale, and is extremely easy to learn (and I mention it because the core rules are free).


@ DavisMal:

I think if Mr Copplestone finished ranges, I'd give him some fairly serious custom. On the other hand, if he's not that bothered about his own products, why should anybody else be?

I also love his old Imperial Guard figs for GW, and would be instantly interested if he did something close in style with all the options. Alas, I doubt he ever will. 


@ Malamute:

I meant to compliment your lovely models BTW, and I see now that I very rudely didn't - sorry! I think they look super, and pretty much emphasise the points I made about painting 10mm higher up in the thread.


@ FierceKitty:

I agree with your painting comments, although I think that washes (especially some of the coloured washes, and not just brown/black) work very well as this scale - but they do still need a highlight afterwards to finish them.

And whilst I know I'm courting controversy with this next statement, I'm going to make it anyway: I think that drybrushing very often looks rather poor on models in the 6-15mm scale, despite this seemingly being the most popular painting technique for these miniature sizes.

The finish it gives is too coarse, too rough, and it leaves models looking indistinct and "blurry" from even a short distance away. Sure, it's quick, fast, and easy, but one pass of neat basic highlights isn't that hard or time-consuming to do, and always looks faaaar better to me.

[tjgreenway]

So I took everyone's advice and ordered some sample minis...well, that was the plan.  Somehow "samples" turned into a 1,000 point Orc and goblin army.  Oh well, moderation isn't one of my strong points.

I got the Orks from Kalistra, as planned, and finally decided on Magister Military for my Goblins.  Also picked up a sample pack for Empire and High Elves from Kalistra.  I know Kalistra run big (12mm), but I don't think it will matter where Orks vs. Gobbos  are concerned...and it will be nice to compare the two manufacturers and scale.

Well see how it goes.  I'm on vacation in a week with no plans...so hopefully they arrive by then.  It'll either be awesome...or $100 down the toilet.

I feel you there, I've just done pretty much the same thing myself - ordered a whole bunch of Elves and Goblins from Magister Militum and Pendraken to 'sample' the wares and see how I enjoy painting them, but ended up with almost an entire army of Elves across the two ranges, oops! I decided on 10mm in the end as I've always wanted to build a massive army (or two, or three, or four  ) in fantasy but it was never going to happen in 28mm; I'm far too slow at painting and with other gaming stuff that I'll be spending money on, I just can't justify the cost at 28mm. I have to admit, I did initially go 'woah, these are bloody tiny' when the first lot of Elves arrived, but after having them sat on my desk for a week I'm starting to come round to the idea of taking a paintbrush to them now. Hopefully the Pendraken stuff arrives soon (ordered a random assortment of Elves, Goblins and Halflings from them if I remember correctly), I might have stuffed myself with different sized miniatures, but I'll see how they fit together once they all arrive.

Just need to pick up a few painting supplies and hopefully I'll get a chance to get these started before we move interstate next month - as soon as I'm up and running, I think this will be my first project log on the forums, so I'll try and get some comparison pics up etc. when everything's here. Shipping can be an issue here too, though (in Australia) so unfortunately won't be ordering anything else until we've moved now, unless I can sneak in a cheeky order with Eureka (the wife might allow it as it'll be our last chance to pick up in store before we move and have to pay the dreaded postag  ).

Some wonderful pictures of people's painted models on here has helped inspire me to get back to this as soon as possible as well, so thanks everyone!

[fred]

Good to hear that the 10mm bug has bitten! Getting started painting them can be bit hard, but once you get in to the swing they are super fast to paint.

One of my mates has just started working on his first 10mm army (Dark Elves) and he procrastinated for ages. But now that he has started he is cracking on at a good pace.

When I started one of the best tips I found was to spray the figures black, then dry brush all over, either in Silver for armoured figures, or an appropriate pale colour for non-armoured figures. This gives you a good pre-shade for the next colours, and helps you see the details. It also really speeds up painting armoured figures. It is a bit of a crude technique - but it really helps get you into painting units, rather than figures.

[grubman]

Good to hear that the 10mm bug has bitten! Getting started painting them can When I started one of the best tips I found was to spray the figures black, then dry brush all over, either in Silver for armoured figures, or an appropriate pale colour for non-armoured figures. This gives you a good pre-shade for the next colours, and helps you see the details. It also really speeds up painting armoured figures. It is a bit of a crude technique - but it really helps get you into painting units, rather than figures.

I've been experimenting with colors and "quick paint" techniques on a bunch of 15mm I had lying around.  I think I'm liking the one below the best, although I will have to see how it transfers to 10mm.  It's a dark brown undercoat, with a light brown drybrush, followed by bright inkwashes and a quick drybrush to highlight.

(Note:  Ignore the ugly color scheme, I was experimenting with a variety of colors using this technique...not trying to make nice looking miniatures )

[fred]

That certainly works!