Anyone not prime their figures?

[Inkpaduta]

I know that most gamers prime their figures. But, there are some who do not.
Does anyone here not prime? After painting for 20+ years I am thinking about
not priming so was interested to hear from those who don't and what you think.
Thanks

[joroas]

If you are using acrylic paints you need to prime otherwise the paint has nothing to adhere to. What benefit would you gain from not priming?

[Inkpaduta]

I don't know, I have painted a few metal figures with that type of paint. They have come out fine.

[Elbows]

The paint may go on okay, but it won't stay there...a game or two and you may see paint flaking off (and make sure you don't eat greasy snacks while gaming!).

For the microscopic cost and amount of time I can't imagine a reasonable reason to not prime miniatures.

[Westfalia Chris]

That said,whenever I hear people say 'so the paint can adhere to something' I always come away thinking, 'so if the paint won't adhere so well to the bare metal and rub off, why is the undercoat so magically able to do this?'
Some questions are not worth asking and it's just best to nod your head sagely in agreement.

Primer coatings are commonly differently formulated from regular paints and prioritise other performance aspects. For example, there's a greater part of resin and binding agent than pigment and carrier medium. It's rather noticeable with primer sprays compared to brush-on primers, e.g. Vallejo. Actual paints prioritise an even, full-tone paint layer that provides colour brilliance, whereas primers are supposed to stick to the underlying surface, first and foremost.

Of course, if you undercoat using actual paint, that will most likely just rub off.

[MartinR]

I don't think I've ever used an actual 'primer' on figures, although I usually do a black or white undercoat, and for soft plastics I prepare them with undiluted PVA. The paint still appears to be sticking to them.

My old Airfix stuff from the 1970s is all painted in enamels without the benefit of any sort of undercoat, and I can't see any obvious evidence of the the paint having rubbed of although there are some flaking rifle barrels.

I can't help thinking that there a lot of urban myths attached to painting, it is paint after all, it is supposed to stick to things.

[Westfalia Chris]

I don't think I've ever used an actual 'primer' on figures, although I usually do a black or white undercoat, and for soft plastics I prepare them with undiluted PVA. The paint still appears to be sticking to them.

In this case, the PVA acts as a primer coat. As the name implies, PVA is a vinyl-alcoholic compound, and vinyl is also a key component of the Vallejo brush-on primer. The glue being sticky rather than a paint, it does its job of sticking to the base material while making it easier for the following paint layers to stick (as compared to the Polyethylene or PVC I think soft plastic figures are made of).

My old Airfix stuff from the 1970s is all painted in enamels without the benefit of any sort of undercoat, and I can't see any obvious evidence of the the paint having rubbed of although there are some flaking rifle barrels.

That might have to do with using hydrophobic paint on hydrophobic plastic. But I am no trained chemistry professional, so I won't speculate.

[joroas]

Enamel paint is oil based so will stick, acrylics are water-based and won't.

[Sunjester]

Way back in my youth I painted my first metal RPG figures with acrylics and no undercoat/primer. Within a few months of use patches of bare metal started showing through. Before that I'd only painted Airfix plastics with enamals (again without undercoat) but not had that problem, other than the more bendy bits like the ends of rifles.

[Hammers]

Primer coatings are commonly differently formulated from regular paints and prioritise other performance aspects. For example, there's a greater part of resin and binding agent than pigment and carrier medium. It's rather noticeable with primer sprays compared to brush-on primers, e.g. Vallejo. Actual paints prioritise an even, full-tone paint layer that provides colour brilliance, whereas primers are supposed to stick to the underlying surface, first and foremost.

Of course, if you undercoat using actual paint, that will most likely just rub off.

That's a German explanation for you! Hard to argue with.

[Plynkes]

Have never used primer. Hasn't ever been a problem. Not once.

[has.been]

When, many years ago, our club started doing War of the Roses we did not undercoat the knights.
They are mainly metal armoured, so one of our group came up with the following:-
1)File away any cast lines.
2)Shine figures with a wire brush (the small, clean your suede boots, type).
3)Coat with (the then new) Tamia 'Smoke' Which both sealed the shine & emphasised all the joints, rivets, chain mail etc.
4)Then paint any 'non metal' bits such as faces (if visor is up) Tabards etc.
These lasted, with a lot of club use, for years.

[FramFramson]

I have done that as well, ink washes over burnished metal. Looks absolutely fantastic for fantasy or medieval figures. And since the edges are supposed to be shiny anyway, you won't notice a nick.

Not sure how they'd take varnish (I varnish my pulp figures, but when I played fantasy I didn't varnish).

[Major_Gilbear]

It's not that paint won't stick, it's that paints are formulated for different properties.

Primers are formulated to stick/bond much better than surface coat paints for example. Those formulated for automotive use normally have a much higher solvent content than other spray paints, which helps them to go on evenly, "shrink" onto the surface better as they cure, and in some cases etch slightly into smooth surfaces to bond better to them. The actual chemical formulation of the binder is usually much tougher too, and can take a day or two of drying before the full cure is achieved (and that's why I spray prime my models at least 24h before I paint them).

Often, old metal models which have been primed and stripped a few times show some evidence of slight surface pitting - and whilst some of this is undoubtedly from the casting of the models and the subsequent stripping, some if it is also from the surface being lightly etched by the primer coats.

On plastic models, the solvent conetnt of the primer actually melts/dissolves a very thin layer of plastic, bonding the paint to the model pretty much permanently. Although you can strip plastic models, you can usually tell if a proper primer was used because it won't come off. If ordinary spray was used, the surface may be a little rough, and the model may still be stained, but the paint will still be mostly removable - because the formulation is different and the solvent levels are lower, so they don't bond as well.

Now, should you prime your models?

If they are intended for display only, and if they are not lead models, you don't strictly need to. (Similarly, you don't strictly need to seal/varnish them afterwards either). Also, if you use metal models and intend to have the metal self-finished for armoured areas and such, then you obviously don't need to prime (although the sealer coat is usually pretty important).

If they are intended for any sort of handling, and they are to be painted all over, then I'd strongly recommend priming. (...And also sealing/varnishing).

Although if you are careful, and if the paint jobs are table-top level, I cannot see skipping the primer and/or sealer having a major adverse effect as long as you don't mind a little regular touching up. This is especially true if you are not the perfectionist I am!

That said, I have acquired thousands of second-hand models over the years, and stripped all but about a dozen of them. What's interesting is that the models that were properly primed and properly sealed were generally in better condition when I received them and were also normally harder to strip clean than those that were not.

Therefore, although careful handling obviously helps to preserve the paintjob, it is also clear to me that proper preparation and protection of the figures makes them much more resistant to any scuffs or chips.

There is also a difference between metal and plastic models; in the same way that plastic glue used on plastic models is permanent, plastic models properly primed are easily the most resistant to any scuffs or chips - in fact, short of damaging the model, paint applied over a primer and sealed against greasy fingers is pretty much indestructible. Metal models on the other hand scuff very easily, but are much more resistant (though nowhere near plastic model levels) if properly primed and sealed.

Finally, enamels are worth a mention on their own. Old enamels that are very well cured are extremely difficult to remove without the use of some extraordinarily nasty thinners/strippers. On plastics, they are therefore pretty much permanent, whilst on metals they are removable with difficulty. That said, gloss enamels are much tougher then matte ones, and any salient points on models are still prone to scuffs. Enamels are also not flexible, so any parts of models that might be prone to bending (like a pointing sword or a bow) tend to have the paint crack off the local area when its stressed.

In conclusion then:

• Using primer for better paint adhesion is not a "myth" or "urban legend". It is made and formulated to do what it says it does.

• Not all spray primers are actually primers, even if they are marketed as such to hobbyists. (*coughGWcough*).

• Using a primer in conjunction with a good sealer will protect your paintjob significantly better than not using either.

• Primers bond much better to plastic models than to metal models.

• Enamels are much more resistant to being rubbed off/greasy fingers than acrylics, but are not as flexible as acrylics. Thin coats of either paint is still the best suggestion anyway!

• Priming and sealing are pretty quick and easy operations that don't cost much money per model. For gaming models, the effort/cost is normally well-rewarded.

• If you don't prime, you can still get a superior paint adhesion on metal models by lightly brushing them all over with a small brass wire brush and then washing and drying them carefully before painting. This provides you with a clean and lightly keyed surface that helps even ordinary paint stick better.

[matakishi]

I've never used primer. I base coat with black, white, grey, whatever, as required with a brush using standard model paints because it gives a better look to the later layers of paint.
Nothing flakes, chips or rubs off. I've been doing this for nearly 40 years and I still have some of my earliest miniatures (not, flaking, rubbed bare or chipped).
I don't varnish any more either, haven't done that for years unless I'm looking for a specific effect- gloss usually for giant eyeballs etc.

Paint how you want with what works for you, it'll be fine. If you don't like a result you get for any reason then change what you do to compensate. Simples.