Anybody play Deus Vult or Burn and Loot?

[Parrot]

The games from Fireforge Games?  I have the Burn and Loot rules, but have never heard of it played around here, or even looked at.  I have not seen many things about it online either.  So is there anybody who is playing it?  Can point me to some reviews, or battle reports?  Can anybody comment on the quality of them?

[JohnDSD2]

It's a mystery to me why there isn't more Deus Vult on here. Like you I'm a newbie to this particular ruleset but trying to get more experience. The odd game I've had it looks workable and with a bit of practice quite fast.

There are a few videos on youtube, you might want to look at.

Criticisms I've come across, are that whoever charges does all the fighting in the melee, so some feel its too easy to wipe out units without them doing any damage back but then a well timed charge by knights could well do that. Also, its quite figure heavy, you need a lot of men for a game.

Things I like about it are, there is a good bit of strategy if you are playing the full rules, with scouting, unit arrivals etc, its not just a line up and go start to the game. Variety of troop options is good, plenty to go at and easy to theme an army and I also, like the attritional feel of the game, not everyone gets killed, unit strength can go down more from people just having enough and leaving.

Hope that helps.

[monkeylite]

I played a few games of DV and nearly liked it. I had a few issues with it, especially how the dice pools can get massive pretty quickly with a few advantageous melee factors on your side. I really liked the activation and command system, and the way the armies were set up and organised.

But I found B&L disappointing. I wrote a review here: http://tewblogger.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/burn-and-loot.html

[Charlie_]

there is a good bit of strategy if you are playing the full rules, with scouting, unit arrivals etc, its not just a line up and go start to the game.

I really liked the activation and command system, and the way the armies were set up and organised.

Sounds interesting - how do these elements work?

[JohnDSD2]

Its been a while since I read the rules and in the try out games I have played we opted not to do the 'front end' part of the game, to keep it simple while we learn the mechanics.

But from memory, the commanders get some options to play stratagems and scouting forces can be added to your force, these influence who gets first turn and how the army arrives. The armies are split into commands, so generally you have an advanced force, a main body, a rear guard and options for scouting and an outflanking force. When the various forces arrive is influenced by the scouting and stratagems.

In the example game in the rules the Crusaders get in a right mess! The Saracens all arrive together, with only the Crusaders advanced force to face them, then the Main body and rearguard get delayed and the crusaders outflanking force gets driven off fairly easily. It makes it a tough game for the Crusaders but they always seem to be in with a chance of winning the game (although they don't!)

With regard to army activation each command, advanced, main body, rearguard etc, has a card, at the start of the turn you choose which order these cards are in, so if you want your main body to go first you put that on the top of your deck. Both sides then determine initiative and the side that is going first reveals their top card and moves that command then their opponent reveals their top card and moves that command. This means you are prioritising your army each turn and trying to second guess your enemy. In the example game another reason the Saracens win in my opinion, is because they out think the Crusaders in this part of the game.

The other part of the command syatem is that often the commander in charge of a force can't activated all his units, once all the commands have been, in the card order part of the turn, then the un-activated units all go at the end, so again there is a prioritising exercise going on within each command.

The reason I like all this is there is plenty to think about as a commander and its ideal for multi-player games.

Hope that helps.