Wargames Show Standards

[Johan]

We try to make a new game every year. We used to have about ten shows in Belgium, Holland and Germany + Salute to take that game to. Now we only have Salute and a show in Ghent where we take our game to, not even at our own show (no time for that- busy with other things) So what ever money you put in there the revenue of it is far less now. It also has to fit in the booth of tha car because we have to take it to Salute.

A show that I've always found very interesting tablewise is Tactica at Hamburg. Some really awful tables there and what I have seen from pictures from the Blam.

However at our own show we have noticed that some people just use the table to get in free and put something up they found in the cupboard that morning. I know that not everybody is a terrainwizard, but I do feel that a little bit of respect towards the organisers is due.

[Von Trinkenessen]

However at our own show we have noticed that some people just use the table to get in free and put something up they found in the cupboard that morning. I know that not everybody is a terrainwizard, but I do feel that a little bit of respect towards the organisers is due.

Having seen some of the games in the last few years I'm suspecting this as well.

[OSHIROmodels]

Be careful or you'll end up being called an Elitist

We wouldn’t want that would we 

[Pijlie]

Are the majority of the games standards poor or are my expectations just far too high? (...)  I don’t want to see hex tiles, green felt, 10mm armies, or any old crap you have in your cupboard at a show. I want to see the crème de la crème of my hobby. I want to see something that excites me, makes think “this is different”, something that makes we want to improve on my standards and take inspiration.

I suspect your expectations are not too high, but just not the same expectations that other people have. I host a lot of participation games at shows and always aim at a good looking table and a good game in the hope that either or both inspire people to do something with the hobby. But I noticed that a lot of people come to shows to buy stuff. Or to play a club game. They like looking at tables but that is just a additional bonus.

I spent a whole day at Crisis last month hosting a participation game. I talked to dozens of interested people and answered heaps of questions about the game and the models but did not get a single person to play. They were just too busy to shop and look around, because Crisis is that kind of show. The same game has stood on other shows and got played about five times a day.



People come to shows for all kinds of reasons that are not always your reasons.

And I share your feelings about green felt   but what in the world do you have against 10mm? It yields spectacular tables when done right.

[levied troop]

I spent a whole day at Crisis last month hosting a participation game. I talked to dozens of interested people and answered heaps of questions about the game and the models but did not get a single person to play.

I was one of those interested people  . Didn’t realise we had LAF in common but the discussion was very useful and I went off and bought En Garde as a result of the discussion.  Probably my fault for not asking but I would have played.  Must  remember to ask next time.

[Pijlie]

Dang that's a shame  

I love to get people to play my games. I offered to demonstrate the game a number of times, but perhaps I was discouraged by the time you passed by  

But it is consistent with my earlier experience at Crisis. It is mostly a shop-admire-and-chat kind of show than one with lots of games played. I however got you to buy En Garde and that is something you won't regret

[Von Trinkenessen]

I spent a whole day at Crisis last month hosting a participation game. I talked to dozens of interested people and answered heaps of questions about the game and the models but did not get a single person to play. They were just too busy to shop and look around, because Crisis is that kind of show.

It's not just Crisis Pijlie I had the same thing at Salute and the Other Partizan .

I think it is becoming harder and harder to compete against the commercial/trader games that people seem to only want to play (before they buy) as participation games at shows.

[Elk101]

I know from my experience I often have limited time and have small children along with me so playing a game isn't often an option. That has no bearing on wanting to play though! Shows tend to be a browsing and buying experience for me since I can often get a show preorder discount and don't pay postage.

I haven't put on any games at a show but I have at museum events. The games have been very popular with kids but it's also been the only game there so nothing really to compete with it.

[Deedles]

It’s an interesting thread . I have been putting games on , both demo and participation for many a year.

It’s only very recently where the odd cup of tea/coffee has been provided Thanks Partizan guys .( I did one at a model railway show .. I got proper expenses then! ) .other than that you choose to suck up the cost to display/demo, and  when doing a participation , let other people you don’t know play with your toys .

Anyone putting on a game is making some effort, if that effort and standard , doesn’t meet or exceeds your personal one is very subjective., I have seen very few at base level , but everyone has to start somewhere

I have always strived to put on the best I can ., and enjoy the chats  with people who visit the table when they want to interact . Getting a few mins to whip round the trades and top the lead pile up is a bonus.

[Elk101]

Funnily enough your Old West game was firmly in my mind when I posted. I'd have really loved to have had a game but with the rest of the family present I couldn't really. Maybe when the little guy gets a bit older!

[Deedles]

Funnily enough your Old West game was firmly in my mind when I posted. I'd have really loved to have had a game but with the rest of the family present I couldn't really. Maybe when the little guy gets a bit older!

Cheers , it reminds me I need to give Serenity another run out ... project for next year I think

[Dave Knight]

I think that it is important to acknowledge that that different people have different reasons for going to shows.

For me the least is the standard of display games.  I will look at most for 30 seconds, give a nod of appreciation to nice looking ones and respond politely if engaged by the gamers.  The ones  that might inspire me a little are those that are a slightly better presented version of club games - mini works of art usually leave me cold.

My main purpose is to play participation games and to have a scout at the bring and buy.  I may top up supplies at traders and buy a book.  The odd chat here and there is also nice.

So a show full of only display games presented to the very highest standards would be a turn off for me and I probably would not visit again the following year.

Just as well we are all different or life would indeed be boring 

[Lysandros]

The standards of the games has deteriorated over the years . Shows seem a social occasion than anything else for me .Some clubs use ( green cloth brigade) Use it as a free day out  but as a spectacle  for public appreciation you might as well call it a day .
I understand there is effort , but if they are at best average there is little point , as there is something in the name SHOW.
Salute in case has seen a decline . Many of even the commercial games are generally nothing that special . Myself and friends want to be inspired  ,a race to the bottom doesn't have any appeal but has its place in club nights .
The best game I have seen in many years was the wonderful Bill Gaskin SYW set up at Salute
a couple of years ago . This was draw-dropping . There were 2 or 3 games that were very good but after that not much to get excited about . It was criminal that this did not  win best of show , or  of the decade . The general feeling amongst the public nothing could touch it .  As we have seen Salute has morphed into a Fantasy/sci fi /commercial skirmish set up and the club organisers are firmly in the camp of new age/goth brigade so really not in a position to
make a clear judgement on the historical side . The winner was a fantastic 40mm Napoleonic
Game but being honest they were poles apart .
I don't go to shop as everything is available on line and seeing hordes of the same plastic box sets doesn't excite , I go to meet friends , have a dinner after and a glass or two . I have given up to be inspired as there are so many poor efforts on show , so many of us are attending less shows .

[Andym]

I had to look up “Bill Gaskin SYW Game”, but once I did, I immediately remember that as being one of my favourites of that Salute! The use of Faller(right pronunciation?) buildings was inspired. That town was amazing!

But I think we’re missing the main point.....display games and participation games do NOT have to be mutually exclusive!! A good looking set up doesn’t automatically mean people can’t get to play!

I do think participation games tend to be more skirmish affairs mind you! I don’t think big yougoIgo games work as show games! I think games where there is a lot of players out for their own means, works best IMHO!

For example, I’m going to try and take my Megacity One game on the road sometime. The game will involve players being a single Trainee Judge trying to stop the most crimes possible and out scoring the other players. I’ll use quick and fast rules, so there’s not a lot of table/book checking and I’ll use event cards to try and keep it fun. They’re should be plenty going on on the table(different crimes represented in mini dioramas) to help with interest.

[nic-e]

If I may jump in...

I had my first experience of BUILDING for a show this year at salute. I was building the table for our store and had an unlimited (within reason) budget, But was only given two weeks of time to do it, during which time i also had to actually man the tills and help customers, And finish my degree.
I was building for a game i have never played , without any real idea of what the guys running the game would be doing.

IT.WAS.EXHAUSTING. I put in extra hours unpaid to get ready because i was playing catch up with alot of other clubs/stores who had started months ago. The vast majority of people don't have the time to build a big amazing display, or if they do, they're going to use it more than once and you'll get bored of seeing it. Those that do have been working on it for a long time and then might have an off year where they decided not to build another 12x8 table.

I think alot of the time when you have groups of people who want to DEMO their game, they might not be the best people at putting together a table, and the people who are great and building tables might not be the best at running games/talking to people. There are a few who can do it all, But those are mostly he people for whom this is their livlihood. For me this is a hobby, and for many other demo gamers the same is true. Perhaps we have been spoilt by the displays of fresh kickstarters with lots of cash to splash on demo tables and big companies with tables that tour around, to the point where we forget that the vast majority of gamers are very friendly people who build their scenery from jam jars.

In short: it's alot of work to build this stuff and even more work to man it, remain friendly and possibly try to sell your products.add to that that it's mostly unpaid or done for fun and you really have to ask yourself if you're expecting too much.