Weapons and Skills: Mods and Ideas

[OldGuy59]

I am being dragged into Strange Aeons by a buddy that is really in to this game.  I am feeling pretty constricted by the small numbers.  Points available, characteristics, skills available and how few can be taken.  However, if this is all part of the game design to keep it simple and fun, it might all work out.  After all, I've only played a few games.

Now, that same buddy wants to run a group campaign, and there are three of us, including the instigator, another individual that is in to the painting opportunities as much as playing, and me, who is going along.  We will rotate who plays their team and who plays the lurkers, and see how crazy we all are in the end.

Now that I've said all that, the reason I'm posting is weapons options and skills.

1. A stick is a scrounge?  What if a character wants to bring a walking stick or cane?  That shouldn't be a scrounge.  What would that cost?  Would there be a cost?

2. Now, what if the stick was 'loaded' (specially weighted as a weapon)?  This is actually illegal in some countries as a lethal, concealed weapon, BTW.  Now, it becomes equivalent to a club, but is stylish as well as useful.  I would see this costing the same as a club, at least, with the same stats.

3.  Bayonets:  Why not? Pay for a knife, but call it a bayonet. A bolt-action rifle could be a surplus WW I weapon, and could be combined as a spear ( not throwable!).  There is a post mentioning this here somewhere, with a skill called Bayonet Drill.

4. Rifle Scopes?  Or is the game too close quarters to make these effective or even useable?

About skills:
A.  Bartitsu (Link:Wikipedia.org - Bartitsu).  What would this be as a skill?  Any stick, or with the bonus of a 'loaded' stick, this would give a character a handy close-combat weapon (was that a bad pun?).  Could this be combined with other martial skills to increase the bonuses?

B.  Bayonet Drill (Link: Unarmed and Rifles ). How do we see this working?  As in the previous post?

Any comments, concerns, or other ideas?

PS:  My Character will have a walking stick, regardless of the outcome of the above.  It will also be his 'Lucky Charm'.  I'm looking for an appropriate figure, and am considering modding a figure with some brass rod to give a good figure a cane if it doesn't have one.

Threshold Character: Morgan Abbott  [4PP+2EP]
Stats: M5 D4+ C6 A3 W2 R3+
Skills: Command, Inspire
Weapons/Gear:

• .45 Handgun (1EP)
• Loaded Walking Stick(.5EP)
• Lucky Charm (Stick .5EP)

Notes:

• Loaded Walking Stick: CCB +2, 1D+1
• Charm: +-1 on any die, once per game

PPS:  OK, this is way beyond what I'm envisioning for my character, but it's cool:
Link:

[hummus]

theres is a martial arts skill for your bartitsu page 103

[OldGuy59]

theres is a martial arts skill for your bartitsu page 103

I think the 'Martial Artist' skill is written for 'unarmed' figures.  Note the closing statement, 'Additionally, the model will no longer suffer an automatic hit before Close Combat begins.'  This implies that the figure doesn't have a close combat weapon, which shouldn't apply to someone with a stick.  

I wouldn't argue with the bonuses, and it could apply, but it isn't written for a figure with a stick/cane/etc...  Perhaps a house rule, until there is something official, and just apply the bonuses.  A discussion point for the campaign members.

PS:
1. The 'Strike to Kill' skill is interesting, in that it doesn't imply a figure without a weapon, except that it requires the 'Martial Artist', which implies 'Unarmed'.  If we house-rule 'Martial Artist', this is OK.
2. The follow-on 'Fists of Iron' skill from 'Strike to Kill' is emphatically for an 'Unarmed' figure.  It would be nice if there was another skill that emulated this for figures with some type of weapon in Close Combat.  Considering some of the monsters I've encountered which have APs or extreme toughness, this is pretty much a must for all Threshold Agents.  Although it will have to be pretty experienced ones, if there are two required skills to get to 'Fists of Iron'.

[OldGuy59]

We did a few games yesterday, and we had a discussion on the Bayonet.  One of the players disagrees on the cost vs the benefits.

His point is there is a set cost for the benefits of a spear, which are not reflected in buying a knife and attaching it to a rifle.  I'm not sure I disagree, but is that how this is supposed to work?  Are you paying for the bonuses by buying the gear, or is there any wiggle room on this?  Could we drop a +1 off the bayonet in CC, and still keep some of the spear benefit (CCB +2)?  The AP bonus doesnt change, and there is a penalty in CC because the bayonetted rifle remains a 2-handed weapon.

Discussion?

[WallyTWest]

No Discussion- I don't think a Bayonet is a "special" enough item to really warrant diffrent rules.

The point of Strange Aeons is its approachable. 2nd edition is the bloated rules heavy beast of the family. If you're going to do Somthing fantastic with game design I suggest working on writing Scenerios or working to bring your favorite "weird fiction" into the game.

I.E. I've really been experimenting (and failing to do in a fun consistent way) with using boardgame components and map exploration to try and enhance discovery and gameplay. I.e.- Clue tokens, gates, horrible truths cards, Narative exploration or trying to write Scenerios based around my favorite xfiles scenerios.

[Dezmond]

No Discussion- I don't think a Bayonet is a "special" enough item to really warrant diffrent rules

A fair number of the minis I would like to use have bayonets. Similarly slings and shields. And I guess grenades? I'd find it kind of nice to have 'official' rules for them because, well, rampant autism probably, but still.

(I'd go with bayonets count as spears you can't throw but can have equipped at the same time as a rifle, slings count as short bows, Great War surplus grenades count as dynamite and I don't know what to do about shields)

(And I reckon the above mentioned cane would count as a club)

[WallyTWest]

Alrighty then: As a dude who has trained with a Bayonet, my suggestion is it's net effect isn't that amazing. It's basically a tactic to enhance CQC technique in modern warfare. It's wildly diffrent when compared to its historical counterparts, and its net effect shouldn't be more than a club or knife in this game.

My thought would be make it into a Scenerio rule- or call attention to it in scenerio writing. I.e.- Capture the proto shoggoth- your team has been equipped with capture gear and ranged cqc equipment like bayonets, light nets and cattle prods to subdue this creature in combat rather than kill it.

Or- make it a "equip-skill"- although this model lacks proper combat discipline, "affix bayonets" or "brace" - represents basic training that allows one adjacent model in base to base contact to re-roll his to hit dice once per game. This skill represents skilled bayonet use, providing an assisted strike with a club or stick, perhaps a well timed taunt about the monsters momma.

I would warn to stay away from bayonet or too many additional equip items- less the Swiss Army knife effect or the "lucky charm" effect where a peice of equipment is designed as a much include for competitive play. As a skill that may help out a weaker fighter or academic it's competing against the rest of the skill tree thus representing a choice of training rather than a "special super knife" and it's inclusion comes at an opportunity cost rather than points.

***Edit*** @Mike - While we are at it- I allways thought a skill that reduces the point cost of a fighter in campaign mode would be a nice way to help leverage out fighter injuries. Nominate skill as "pension plan".

[Grumbling Grognard]

meh...  I like to keep it simple.

I have been charging/using bayonets as if they were the same as a spear.  I have an old figure with a WW1 trench-broom (pump shotgun with a bayonet) and I just charge him for a double barrel shotgun plus a spear.

My 2 cents,
Scott

[WallyTWest]

Where is thumbs up?

[OldGuy59]

Latest forray into making teams, and my "rifleman" ended up with Con 8 after the last session.  Looking at where I could take this guy, and perusing through the skills list, I ran across 'Burly'.  Really?  Does this do what I think it does?

Oh!  Remington produced the Browning Auto-5 self-loading shotgun as the Model 11 from 1905 to 1947.  Hmmm...

Well, with the other skills, like 'Hail of Bullets', perhaps I'm getting excited about nothing.  Perhaps 'Burly' won't let me equip, and use, two shotguns per Action?  Cause it is possible to work up an Agent to have a Con of 7 and outfit him/her (not immediately, but eventually) with skills and stat upgrades to get to that.

The model would need to have a Con upgrade to 7 ('Tough' and 'Thick Skin' would do it), and then 'Shoot'em Up' and 'Burly'. 'Hail of Bullets' if necessary.  If 'Hail of Bullets' isn't necessary, a Dex reduction would be really nice.

Am I mis-interpreting the rules, or can a model equip, and shoot, two 2-Handed weapons with 'Burly'?  If not, why is 'Burly' there?

PS: My Agent started with the free skill of 'Tough', BTW.  So, there is room for even more nastiness. If the Dex increase comes along, I could add 'Armour Piercing', 'Crack Shot' or 'Firearms Enthusiast' for really 'offensive' firepower.

[WallyTWest]

....  I think I see smoke coming out of your ears ....

[OldGuy59]

....  I think I see smoke coming out of your ears ....

Oh!  That must be that burning rubber smell I'm detecting.

None of my opponents will agree with using two shotguns in an Action.  Not a surprise.

Armour Piercing bullets?  There are Metal-Tipped Arrows, and Hollow-point bullets, but nothing to get through armoured creatures.

Anyone seen the Mythbusters episode when they tried to make and use 'Silver' bullets?

Hmmm...  Perhaps this article, instead: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/5272iw/cmdrsquirrel_opines_about_silver_bullets/

And there are always lead bullets with specialized cores, or discarding sabot rounds, with silver or steel/tungsten. 

There are tough monsters out there that just can't be taken down with a .22 pistol and a knife.  Are we introducing them too early in the campaign?

[Grumbling Grognard]

I think you are reading "Burly" correctly and yes it is a lofty goal and one you may need by the time you character gets that far (and good luck on that).

As to your question regarding critters unable to be hit...  Critical hits are your best hope.  Also, you have to think (in regards to designing your list) like a freaking Boy Scout on Crack ....always prepared all the time for everything....at once...from different directions in a hellish scenario.  This is HP Lovecraft-land.  If it can go wrong, it will and that is the bad guys mission #1: Poke holes in your list.  If you take nothing but a .22 cal pistol against Cthulhu expect to die fast.

A molotov cocktail or an axe can help alot early in the game.  I like the old .45cal pistol or shotgun myself...then dynamite for a cure-all after I get the correct skill so as not to blow myself up too much...   

[OldGuy59]

I think you are reading "Burly" correctly and yes it is a lofty goal and one you may need by the time you character gets that far (and good luck on that).

As to your question regarding critters unable to be hit...  Critical hits are your best hope.  Also, you have to think (in regards to designing your list) like a freaking Boy Scout on Crack ....always prepared all the time for everything....at once...from different directions in a hellish scenario.  This is HP Lovecraft-land.  If it can go wrong, it will and that is the bad guys mission #1: Poke holes in your list.  If you take nothing but a .22 cal pistol against Cthulhu expect to die fast.

A molotov cocktail or an axe can help alot early in the game.  I like the old .45cal pistol or shotgun myself...then dynamite for a cure-all after I get the correct skill so as not to blow myself up too much...   

Found this in the SA FAQ thread:

Quote from: -p 112 SA 2nd Ed

    A model may never equip more than one 2-Hand weapon to its profile.

So, I was getting excited about nothing for 'Burley'.  Darn.

I have to play this game a lot more.  Starting out, you don't have a lot of choices, and I went with something with impact at range (Bolt-Action Rifle for keeping the Lurkers at bay, and for AP on big monsters), before I realized how badly the Dex 4+ Requirement is crippling my sniper-initiate.  I haven't managed to get the Dex lowered on that model, and I can't take 'Lightning Fast' without first lowering the Dex.  Now, I'm stuck with an equipment list that is hurting my team in the lower point games (only shoots once per turn, doesn't hit most of the time, can't Alert shoot, and I can't re-equip until I die).  At the beginning of this game, and at low levels, a Shot-gun and a Cleaver would have been a much better choice.  However, Shot-guns don't have AP at range.  Unless one considers 12-gauge, Discarding-Sabot slug shells, which are capable of penetrating engine blocks (not around in the '30's, unfortunately).

Looking at the lists and weapons available, and the way that models develop, I'm seeing an even more serious limitation to survival.  I need to build a few lists and play them out to see how they work.

PS: Hmmm...  First Shot-gun Slug ammo was developed in 1898 for smooth-bore guns.  Not as effective as rifles, but good for large game at short ranges (400 yards).  So, depending on the game design for Shot-guns, you could do AP2 slugs at tabletop ranges.  Perhaps 8", rather than 10", but considering the loss of effectiveness of shot-gun pellets at any ranges, you could extend the range of slug ammo in Shot-guns.  Fiddle with it for game balance?

[Grumbling Grognard]

I would keep it simple and play a list or three before tweaking anything too much.  IMHO, half the beauty of this game is its simplicity.

With that said: ... I have several modifications I have been using.  They are in my gallery in two sections for Extras and Custom Races       Scott's Gallery

Regarding slug ammo for shot guns, I figured that is what is loaded in the shotguns normally; buckshot costs extra-gives spread and is optional...  Now, as to why shotguns have a shorter range than a pistol I will never understand.  (maybe I am too much of a war gamer)