Looking for an ancients mass battle ruleset

[Atheling]

I’m a devotee of TTS but as you say you don’t like it I won’t push them.

Hail Caesar has never taken off in our club. What seems popular are “Sword and Spear v2” and Mortem et Gloriam.

 Sword and Spear are sold by Great Escape Games with army lists available free online.

Oops.... (sorry Simon) I forgot, To The Strongest is another great set of rules so another +1 from me

[Doom Beard 78]

chap posts up to say that he is not keen on grids and is looking to

... recapture the feel of old WFB which did all of these things but just with ancients

respondents proceed to recommend a grid based game and then their own favourite rules regardless of whether they recapture the feel of WFB.  Genius

[aktr]

Oops.... (sorry Simon) I forgot, To The Strongest is another great set of rules so another +1 from me

To be fair to To the Strongest I haven't looked into it much but I heave heard it uses a grid system which really puts me off. I already have a coupld of battle mats and don't want to have to get a new one just so I can have a grid

Sword and Spear from Great Escape Games.

I think I've actually got that on my shelf somewhere, the issue is my opponent likes big shiny books with lots of pretty pictures and potted history
he would rather spending £20 on an army book that contained those then just have a free PDF list

The sad reality is finding a CoE player is quite difficult. I had a quick look on the Great Escape Games forum and their opponent finder, shows barely any activity in 6 years. 

Hopefully, your opponent will get an army and you get some gaming in

That shouldn't be to much of an issue as it will just be me and him playing it, I'm not a member of a club or anything like that

I'd suggest having a look at Mortem et Gloriam (MeG) - if only because I'm playing and really enjoying it  . A lot of the players using it use 15mm, however, it is perfectly usable with any figure size.

Shiny new rule book available from The Plastic Soldier Company - https://www.theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/shop/rulesets/mortem-et-gloriam-rules/ - released a few weeks ago.

I'll take a look into that thanks

chap posts up to say that he is not keen on grids and is looking to

... recapture the feel of old WFB which did all of these things but just with ancients

respondents proceed to recommend a grid based game and then their own favourite rules regardless of whether they recapture the feel of WFB.  Genius

Its okay I expected as much - this is the internet afterall





I think ultimately because my opponent like big shiny rule books with lots of pictures and potted history the choices are their Clash of Empires or Hail Ceaser
War and Conquest could work but there lists are just PDFs with no fluff

But if I base my guys on 20mm square bases I should be able to move between rulesets

[Johnp4000]

No, I wasn't suggesting that. There are traces of WAB in Swordpoint (far superior IMHO).

We still use WAB 1.5 at the club quite regularly (though seems like a while back now!).

It is interesting but COE just seemed like WAB 1.5 where someone just crossed out the bits they didn't like! I never found it different enough. It is interesting trying to compare WAB with Swordpoint, although just like WAB, I see the planned schedule for swordpoint supplements is falling apart. Personally I find WAB still has a better game flow than Swordpoint, for some reason I struggle with the momentum concept which seems to have become the slowing down point in the few games I have had.

[aktr]

Well my mate has just told me that he fully intends to by the Hail Caesar rulebook come payday so that might be that sorted then.
although as I said we use a 6x4 table so I think unit footage of 120mm rather then 160mm might be in order

[Johnp4000]

Well my mate has just told me that he fully intends to by the Hail Caesar rulebook come payday so that might be that sorted then.
although as I said we use a 6x4 table so I think unit footage of 120mm rather then 160mm might be in order

I think Hail Caesar is a good set to try, it is one of the few rules systems that gives a reason to maintain your lines. I would check the supplements to see if there are any that match your armies as these do offer some additional options.

[fred]

We played loads of HC on 6’x4’ using 120mm frontages.

Admittedly this was with 10mm fantasy figures, but it still works well as a game.

[A Lot of Gaul]

period wise I'm waiting for my opponent to pick something but he has said he ether likes the idea of something with plenty of Phalanx or 'Romans' (he has not specified what period of Roman). Personally I like Persia or Carthage

The Hail Caesar Army Lists: Biblical and Classical supplement includes lists for all of the armies you mention. Warlord is no longer selling the print version, but there are still copies  available on Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hail-Caesar-Army-Lists-Classical/dp/0956358136 and eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=hail+caesar+army+lists+biblical+and+classical&_sacat=0

Cheers,
Scott

[Westbury]

So am I
Jeff always has some good advice so there is a start (see also my thread on Successors)
I'm in the process of playing as many sets as I can either physically or via reviews and YouTube - there are a lot of sets out there. Unfortunately I have to say I really, really didn't like To The Strongest.
Good luck!

[Shahbahraz]

So, newbie question for you guys: how difficult is it to switch back and forth between different games without building a whole new army? I've only started collecting/painting over the past few months and I've kind of defaulted to Hail Caesar, mostly because that's what seems most readily available on the web.

It depends largely on scale and basing. As you want to do 28mm, I would suggest a standard 60mm frontage for all units, this is the old WRG basing that became a de facto standard from the 90's onward. Even games with larger bases such as Impetus use multiples of 60mm.

[wmyers]

It may be the better recommendation to individually base your figures.

Then you can use them for rules that call for that (ie all skirmish rule sets and they are popular for good reason so you may end up playing (or wanting to play) them, and just use movement trays.

[Fremitus Borealis]

Yeah I've been doing individual 20mm bases. Just wasn't sure sure if I've been going too big on the unit sizes since a lot of the pictures I see online show a lot fewer models per unit.

[wmyers]

Yeah I've been doing individual 20mm bases. Just wasn't sure sure if I've been going too big on the unit sizes since a lot of the pictures I see online show a lot fewer models per unit.

Different rules have different requirements.  Some are points, some by units. Some rules it matters that you have a unit and you just represent it.

The more flexible you plan, the more options you would have for the future.

This is a Warlord Games article on basing for Hail Caesar:

https://www.warlordgames.com/hail-caesar-base-sizes/

[Fremitus Borealis]

Different rules have different requirements.  Some are points, some by units. Some rules it matters that you have a unit and you just represent it.

The more flexible you plan, the more options you would have for the future.

This is a Warlord Games article on basing for Hail Caesar:

https://www.warlordgames.com/hail-caesar-base-sizes/

Yeah, that's actually the article I've been using as reference! But like I say, I've started wondering how "standard" they are, because it seems like their model totals are a bit higher than what I've seen when browsing people's blogs for inspiration. Like, Warlord says a completed unit of phalangites is 4 rows of 8 soldiers, but then I'll see somewhere else someone posting pictures of their "completed unit" that has like 12 phalangites in it   

[Warren_Gleeson]

I like WAB 1.5 (a lot), though the games are few are far between nowadays.  You can still pick the rules up relatively cheaply on eBay, along with most of the supplements.

I've played a fair few games of Hail Caesar in 28mm with 160mm frontages, though I do prefer a bigger table than 6 foot wide, you could probably get away with 120mm frontage units.  I find that these games need  more room simply due to the significant potential mobility of troops.

I tried out Swordpoint for a while with friends in the club. It does have good support from Gripping Beast with a nice spread of supplements, and most importantly they are still in print.  Of all of the rules which came after WAB died, this one seems to have picked up a lot of the old WAB community.  In the UK there is a reasonable active community, along with local tournaments.

More recently I've really enjoyed playing the Sword and Spear rules from Great Escape Games, which are available in printed form but I bought mine as a pdf.  The nice thing about these are that they are easy to pick up, and there are a vast number of lists available free on-line.

I've taken to basing my figures mainly on 40mm squared bases and used sabot unit trays to continue to play many of these games (4 bases for HC or S&S, 3 to 10 bases for WAB or SP).  For me this is a storage and transportation practicality as well as meeting a desire for a simple basing aesthetic.  If you wanted to go for total rules transferability though, you're probably best off basing your figures individually - it will then also open up the options for playing the recent swathe of skirmish rule sets.