Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Good points too, Andrew.

[Fighting15s]

Just to give an idea of the costs of appointing an EU intermediary, the costs range from a low 1250€ a year to 4800€ a year. Royal Mail’s chosen intermediary for its IOSS solutions is Deloitte, which charges £2000 a year.

I can’t answer for every small miniatures manufacturer, but with EU sales nowadays of 100 orders a year (down from nearer 800 in my AB/Eureka years), the Deloitte route would add £20 per EU order, with typically higher VAT rates than the UK’s 20%, necessitating another price adjustment in the shop. There is still the issue of having a shopping cart that could charge VAT on orders under 150€ but not on orders over that value. In short, the cost of using an intermediary would, for customers in a number of EU countries, be far higher than simply paying VAT and a handling fee on import. The exceptions are the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark, where customers would be slightly better off for only paying an extra £20 an order...

So for the present, for a number of suppliers, the cheapest and most cost effective route for sales to EU customers is for the customer to pay VAT and handling fees on import.

Andrew, however, may be able to provide some illumination as to the actual cost of using a marketplace such as Etsy. I still object in principle to small businesses being driven by VAT rules into the arms of large commercial concerns, i.e. marketplaces.

It’s not all potential gloom. Royal Mail is also offering an IOSS solution via Taxamo, which costs just £2 per parcel. However, the only e-commerce platform it integrates with is Magento. There is also a direct API integration. Details at https://www.taxamo.com/taxamo-assure-rmg If it eventually supports other major shopping carts as a simple plugin, then I can imagine it will be more immediately usable. Until then, I continue to sell to the EU as normal, deducting VAT and having customers pay VAT and handling fees to the mail service on import.

[Zaheer]

I'm still selling to the EU. Introducing flat-rate shipping (above large letter) to help offset VAT (at least in part). I'm not VAT registered so IOSS is more than I'm comfortable with at the moment.

Will have to see how it goes over the next few months, either looking to increase or decrease the shipping discount as required. As for my next Kickstarter, I am still working on that.

Needless to say I very much appreciate the patience and support of all of my European customers (from this island and the mainland) during this... trying time.

[Andrew Rae]

Andrew, however, may be able to provide some illumination as to the actual cost of using a marketplace such as Etsy.

It's not cheap. But for EU sales, I see it as a choice between Etsy fees or no sales at all, given the buying patterns of my customers.

I really like Taxamo Assure as a solution - removes all the tax liability for sellers, just like selling on Ebay or Etsy. If only I could integrate the bloody thing... There are some cheap Intermediaries popping up. One is handing out IOSS numbers for a 20 euro monthly fee, plus 1 euro fee per order. Gonna leave that one for other guinea pigs. It doesn't fill me with confidence given the tax risks they're taking on. HMRC are still saying they'll open a UK IOSS portal for registration at some point (they should've launched the OSS portal for NI businesses today...), but it remains to be seen how that's going to work regarding Intermediaries.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Thanks for the info, Ian. I didn't know how it worked, but now it makes sense that some manufacturers are uncomfortable with IOSS. I would be, in their place! I think that your solution is reasonable, at least for the moment.

Presently, I have two orders about to arrive, from Sarissa and Perry Miniatures (both ordered before 1st July, but thanks to Postal Services, they will arrive any time next week), so I will see how are handled by Correos, and how much extra they charge me. The Perry's order does not bother me, as their website already charges the purchases from the EU without VAT, therefore the only real extra cost will be the handling fees (which sucks, particularly given the fact that Correos is a semi-public business and it is financed via taxes!), but I do not know what will happen with Sarissa's...

Hope Taxamo will be easier to implement in the future and we can go back to business as usual.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

I just received a small order from the Perry brothers. No VAT charged.

What I do not get is why the EU and UK do things so complicated. Wouldn't be easier simply to charge your local VAT to customers and collect it locally and then exchange info and compensate the difference? Imagine that British nationals buy products in EU countries that would suppose 2.4 billion euros in VAT; EU customers buy products in the UK for a value of 2.3 billion euros in the same quarter; then UK makes a transfer of 0.1 billion to the EU, or vice versa, depending who collected more. Technically shouldn't be that difficult to implement.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Another small order received from the UK, in this case from Sarissa, and again no VAT charges.

Up to this moment the only order that I received from the UK that has been hit by customs was a big KS order from Flags of War (200+ GBP). All other orders have passed under the radar.

[Andrew66]

I’ve still not encountered  Vat charges on any purchases I’ve made which is good news , most orders have been under 70€ 

[Andrew66]

Well it’s a few months on , how is everyone finding the shipping and delivery  to Europe , I sense some companies are still adapting, some companies still seem to be charging uk vat on there products and not removing it ,whilst others are registering for IOSS or not charging VAT , I sense this will be a long process for some

[Wellington]

Only ordered in NI or things like decals which are very likely slip through, withour beeing noticed by customs.

[Westfalia Chris]

Moderator Note:

I edited the thread title to reflect that while there still is a mountain of uncertainties, many traders have now taken steps to clarify the situation and provide their services. The old title seemed to be a bit too negatively focused by now.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Well, after a while without buying from the UK, I made a small order from Aventine Miniatures (in Northern Ireland) and came through without being hit by customs. I know that is how it is supposed to be when shipping from NI to the EU, and vice versa, but apparently Aventine has had some troubles with DHL and German customs, so I was a bit wary, particularly because Spanish customs have been stricter with shipments from the UK in the past couple of months.

[Duncan McDane]

A plea to all ( non VAT-registered ) UK-sellers,
please check and doublecheck the models you send out.
Since Brexit I've backed two kickstarters, a small one ( 20- miniatures ) and a large one ( 100+ models ). Both ones contained a doublure one instead of the correct type, which is quite frutrating when they are character models or part of a command group.
Now, the problem here ( Netherlands ) are the courier charges, on top of the VAT and duty which come to the shippin costs. Those courier charges vary from 4 euro to 13 euro ( UPS ) and are standard on every order, no exceptions, no matter how small. So, in order to get a replacement figure I am charged a standard 4 - 13 euro, even if the rest would be free ( which it isn't ).
Because of this, I didn't appeal for a replacement fig, I didn't mail the sellers ( won't mention them here because blaming isn't my point here, mistakes do happen, I mad my fair share of them ) But "ok, you've got the wrong model and you don't want me sending you a replacement ", so basically it would be useless.
But my point, please check the orders, both on picking the order and then check the figs again for miscasts or missing parts. A bit more work but it would save a bit of frustration on the continent 

[Fighting15s]

mistakes do happen, I mad[e] my fair share of them

You can imagine the people who make these mistakes enjoy paying the cost of sending out a replacement item for an international customer as much as the customer enjoys paying the cost of customs again. :-) Because of that they might already have a double-checking system in place, which will still fail from time to time. Says the man who recently missed a pair of 15mm chariot wheels from an order, despite counting parts out of the drawers and again counting them into the bags - you can still count twice incorrectly. :-) The wheels cost a small fortune to send relative to their value.

[Duncan McDane]

The wheels cost a small fortune to send relative to their value.

That's why I say, check and doublecheck, especially on international orders. The alternative is either stop selling to international customers ( Like the Footsore guys did for a while ) or accept a dramatic loss in sales abroad. Mind you, only 2 UK post-brexit kickstarters and both times a mispack, that's a 100% score and not really motivating to get another one.
On the plus site, after this Covid-thingy we just have to visit the UK more often for our shopping needs  .