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Author Topic: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks  (Read 2659 times)

Offline wmyers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 332
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2021, 03:53:16 PM »
I think there is more need for the people around the Greeks, like Scythians, Traciansm Illyrians, Kolchis etc. then for further Greeks.

I miss especially Scythian Infantry (both with bow and Javelins), early Tracians Noble cavaly and people around the Black Sea compatible with the Foundry miniatures.

Why just compatible with Foundry?

Is that what most people are purchasing currently?

Offline Wellington

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 198
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2021, 04:13:05 PM »
Only my peronal wish  ;)

Foundry Skythians and Tracians are still the best on the market and the Foundry Greeks are my personal favorites.
A life without Samurai is possible, but not desirable!

Offline wmyers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 332
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2021, 04:31:14 PM »
I prefer metal myself. 

Plastic seems to be all the rage but there are drawbacks. 

Offline Jjonas

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 184
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2021, 08:29:55 PM »
These are from Periskopio Publications, Stratiotike Istoria (Millitary History). The art is by Christos Giannopoulos. I would take some of his illustrations with a grain of salt when it comes to historical authenticity. Most of these were created too fast (and payed too cheap) to be considered properly researched.

Yes, and yes. These illustrations are often way over the top. But OTOH they allow for a certain room to create some more than the usual suspects of ordinary Persian figures. The tall Sacae caps are a unique feature, and the fact they were in the center of the Persian line denote that probably some were armored spearmen. These representations combine a lot Persian and Ionian elements for the hoplite as well. My old Garrison Sacae in 25mm still are hard to find something close in 28mm.

I note that this week Victrix is closing in on completing their plastic figure sets. The armoured set was the latest. This is part of growing surge in Persians, but still addresses the top of the line and never seems to get to variants of the myriads of nations. The Wargames Atlantic set has a number of head swaps which do allow variants which is very useful since often the base clothing is similar.

Still no Sacae tall hats, Babylonian Red Sea men, and the vast array of different ethnic troops available in the past from the glory days of 25mm. I was just thinking of upgrading these bases yet again. The best way to keep the old 25's in use is to make their bases taller!

I recognize that Persian levies in miniature is a thankless task!
JJonas

Offline Samuel

  • Student
  • Posts: 11
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2021, 05:36:00 PM »
Jeff, what reference material are your Persians based on?  Iíd like to find some good books and/or websites with good archeological references.

Offline Jjonas

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 184
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2021, 06:19:05 PM »
Jeff, what reference material are your Persians based on?  Iíd like to find some good books and/or websites with good archeological references.

Note these 25mm Persians I showed off (except for the Elamite archers by Navigator) were all painted back in the 1970's so the only resources were the now much out of date but fun as heck Funcken books, plus other printed soldier books.
LES COSTUME ET LES ARMES DES SOLDATS DE TOUS LES TEMPS - 1. Des pharaons a louis XV
Funcken, Liliane et Fred
https://www.biblio.com/book/costume-armes-soldats-detous-temps-1/d/1127784602?aid=frg&currency_id=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvvKBBhCXARIsACTePW8qtlyqyf2FNTW6HuhkGr5cCHUhrSX11jgkiab22AwlfMJ6uvONv1saAnwQEALw_wcB

In 1975 we had the WRG books like this one by Richard Nelson and Ian Heath:
Armies of the Greek and Persian Wars 500 to 350 BC paperback Ė 1975 (new hardback version November 28, 2015)
by Richard Nelson (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Armies-Greek-Persian-Wars-500/dp/1326256491

In 1983 the most important work was published by Duncan Head and Ian Heath, the virtual bible of this period's studies from 450 BC to the Roman empire:
Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars Paperback Ė 1983 (New hardback edition April 15, 2016
by Duncan Head (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Armies-Macedonian-Punic-Wars-Duncan/dp/1326256564/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_0/135-6010953-9220339?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1326256564&pd_rd_r=48053013-84b7-4cf2-9d1d-21674306d96f&pd_rd_w=AUnO4&pd_rd_wg=OvcGg&pf_rd_p=16b28406-aa34-451d-8a2e-b3930ada000c&pf_rd_r=0GRPBNAP97869MJX63NE&psc=1&refRID=0GRPBNAP97869MJX63NE

Not satisfied with that truncated version of Persian research Duncan Head released this even more brilliant and expensive collectors item in 1992. Duncan Head and Richard Scollins and Christopher Rothero:
https://www.amazon.com/Achaemenid-Persian-Army-Duncan-Head/dp/1874101000/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+achaemenid+persian+army&qid=1614621942&s=books&sr=1-1

Then there are the Osprey Elite and other Osprey series on the Persian Army which covers the late army nicely with somewhat staged but detailed plates.
https://www.amazon.com/Persian-Army-560-330-BC-Elite/dp/1855322501


Newest are the Persicopio Press books on Thermopylae, Salamis, and Marathon (as noted in posts above) which have spirited color reconstructions that are (as I said ) over the top but inspiring nonetheless.

Also you can search the web and find persian re enactors:
https://legio-iiii-scythica.com/index.php/en/thracian-hellenistic-historical-restorations/persian-restoration.html

https://hetairoi.de/en/pictures/2011/langenzersdorf

Offline Samuel

  • Student
  • Posts: 11
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2021, 05:03:06 PM »
Thanks for the great reference links!  I struggle with non-academic sources like Osprey, trying to understand what is historically based and what is just fanciful.  Sometimes it is hard to tell, and I suppose sometimes it is the best we can do.

Offline Samuel

  • Student
  • Posts: 11
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2021, 01:01:49 AM »
What do you think of this for an historically accurate slinger from the 5th Century?

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 866
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2021, 03:08:43 AM »
The slinger looks great.

After reading the Chris Cameron books I thought some Egyptian and Phoenician marines would be good to have as miniatures.

Offline has.been

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3552
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2021, 11:16:39 AM »
Sticking my two pence in.
I think there is a market for a universal figure.
I hark back to the 1960s when the vast majority of my
(schoolboy pocket money funded) troops came from
Airfix Robin Hood set. Helped by Bob O'Brian's wonderful
series Romans, friends & foes. Why that set? I hear you ask.
Good question. It provided guys in a tunic, which could become
just about any ancient troop type. Head swaps added to the variety.

So... how about a figure, or figures, in tunic? With a choice of separate 
heads, shields, bow-cases etc. Would fulfil the need for so many units.

Offline Tonhel

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 354
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2021, 12:03:23 PM »
What do you think of this for an historically accurate slinger from the 5th Century?

I think he looks very good. Will those digital files be available to buy?

Offline Tim Haslam

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
  • *
  • Posts: 847
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2021, 12:16:11 PM »
Iím with the others on this, Lydian Hoplites for example, would be useful.
Plus the various Persian marines deployed in the period.

Iím still stunned that no one produces a decent plastic Indian range?
An infantry box,
An elephant box,
A mixed chariot/basic cav box.

Aventine do wonderful but only two elephants!

Sorry, Iíve hijacked the thread!

But really, basic Indian troop types should be easy stuff to create in 3D?
From a purely business perspective, producing yet more Greeks, whilst Iím sure theyíll be lovely, will just give you loads of competition?
Whereas Indians are very sadly lacking at the moment.
Plus they are hugely popular.

Offline Tim Haslam

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Mad Scientist
  • *
  • Posts: 847
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2021, 12:21:20 PM »
Iíve been playing ancients on and off since I was a child, starting with WRG rules.
Indians were always popular, and in all four rule sets Iíve played over the years, Indians were always a powerful successful force to use.

I know Iím biased, Iíve painted 3 separate Indian armies over the last 40+ years!
Vendel, 1st Corps, and I think Minifigs?

Offline Jjonas

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 184
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2021, 04:00:09 PM »
"It provided guys in a tunic, which could become
just about any ancient troop type. Head swaps added to the variety."

The Wargames Factory Numidians are the set you are implying. It has a core tunic/sleeveless and some generic heads.
A more up to date version of that would be useful.

Wargames Factory
http://wabcorner.blogspot.com/2011/08/wargames-factory-numidian-light_05.html

However, the Victrix Peltasts, archers, and unarmored hoplites are very useful -except for their poorly engineered idea of having the hands cast onto the spears- since they break too easily and drilling out hands that are glued on- well that's tedious.

Victrix
https://www.victrixlimited.com/products/greek-unarmoured-hoplites-and-archers



 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 04:01:50 PM by Jjonas »

Offline Jjonas

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 184
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: Whatís missing for 5th Century Greeks
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2021, 04:18:03 PM »
Iíve been playing ancients on and off since I was a child, starting with WRG rules.
Indians were always popular, and in all four rule sets Iíve played over the years, Indians were always a powerful successful force to use.

I know Iím biased, Iíve painted 3 separate Indian armies over the last 40+ years!
Vendel, 1st Corps, and I think Minifigs?

Tim- did you check out these. They seem rather healthy 28's up there with Vendel (Thistle & Rose now).
http://www.theminiaturecompany.co.uk/28mm-Ranges/Indian/indian.html

(You made me laugh "I think Minifigs" like you were blacked out?)

Tim's great vendel Indians in a box still ride here- I need to replace the images with higher res. these were posted long ago when bandwidth cost extra.... They were the perfect convention road army.

https://ancientbattles.com/Indians/indian_army_tim_haslam.htm

 

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