Anyone else having trouble with Winsor & Newton brushes?

[WillieB]

Bought 10 W&N brushes (mostly size 1, 0 and 2/0)  about three weeks ago, and another 12 for a friend of mine (same sizes) for a total of some 220 €, from a local art shop.

First brush- a size 1- I used simply splayed up like a chimney brush and couldn't be smoothed with anything, let alone drawn into a point.
Same thing with one of the 0 size brushes but the "best" one was another size 0 that simply shed ALL of its hairs the first time I used it. I was left with an empty ferule!
The rest is doing okay but definitely not as good as the ones I used earlier on. And by 'earlier on"  I mean over the last 25 years!

I know that a few years ago W&N brushes had some issues, but I had assumed they were back to their original high quality by now. It seems those issues are back with a vengeance.

What's more, my friend contacted me earlier this week and said he had also found three 'duds" amongst his 12 brushes. Three out of 12 (at least since he hasn't tested all of them) So that's at least six totally unusable expensive brushes out of 22 and at least another 4 only so-so. Probably more.

Another thing that was new to me was that some of the W&N brushes now came pre- packaged in a cellophane wrapper 10 to a pack. The plastic tubes were still there as well as the protective cap, but as far as I know they have always been sold singly in their plastic tubes?

Anyway, I've switched to Raphael 8404s  for the time being and possibly permanently.

[Phil Robinson]

I gave up on them years ago and switched to Rosemary’s brushes, cheaper and they certainly last longer than W&N did.

[Dags]

I gave up on them years ago and switched to Rosemary’s brushes, cheaper and they certainly last longer than W&N did.

Basically this - used them for years without issue then the quality went right downhill.

That being said the quality control at Rosemary & Co isn't what it was. Used to be that maybe 1 in 10 was a dud (but they were cheap enough that it didn't matter) now it's, maybe a quarter 

Recently got given some Artis Opus to try out and I'm very impressed with them.

[Deedles]

Basically this - used them for years without issue then the quality went right downhill.

That being said the quality control at Rosemary & Co isn't what it was. Used to be that maybe 1 in 10 was a dud (but they were cheap enough that it didn't matter) now it's, maybe a quarter 

Pretty much the same for me

[Mindenbrush]

I bought some W&N S7's recently from the UK and they appear to be okay though not used them yet other than a swish around in some clean water to see if they flared or forked.

I had switched to Rosemary some years back but had a couple of bad ones in an order last year.
Tried Pro Arte after listening to the interview with Kevin D who said Foundry brushes were just rebranded Pro Arte brushes - cannot get on with them as the bristles and handle are longer than I am used to (being retired for 2 years and painting an average of 5 hours a day one gets used to certain things).
Tried 2 Raphael 8404's size 0000, they are the same size as a Rosemary or W&N 000 and both forked as soon as they saw paint.
Tried a couple of Army Painter Masterclass and again could not work with the longer bristles.

I do use some Gum Arabica on most of my brushes a couple of times a week after cleaning them as this helps keep them to a point, just wash the brushes before you use them and it dissolves. The Gum Arabic has helped with the 8404's but they will still fork at times.

[Charlie_]

Uhh... I have had nightmares with all brands I've used to be honest. The dreaded 'forking' of bristles... And I take really good care of them.

I used to use W&N and found they just didn't last long at all... I never understood how people say they use the same good brush for years??? I got maybe a month or two out of each one.

I then tried Rosemary & Co because they were cheaper, and if I was going to be replacing them every few months.... I bought a big bunch of different sorts. Strangely I found the lesser quality ones I'm happy with and get lots of life from, but the 'premium' ones all forked.

I then tried the new range of brushes from Warbases, of all companies... Very nice. The first 'platinum' one I had was perfect and lasted a good long time, but eventually needed replacing. And frustratingly, the replacement seems to be forked from day one!!!!


Am I just cursed to always get bad batches, will my brushes be forking forever?

Sometimes I can carefully locate one rogue bristle and gently remove it, and it solves the problem. Perhaps this is to be expected, and everyone does this? I dunno. Never really got my head around it.

[Dags]

The Warbases brushes are a major brand rebadged.

[Blackwolf]

I bought a few a couple of years ago after mainly using Raphael, strangely the more I used them the better they were,wearing them in so to speak.

[SteveBurt]

I’m still happy with W&N series 7. I find I get about 1 to 2 years use out of each brush before it loses its point. Maybe I’ve just been lucky.

[WillieB]

I’m still happy with W&N series 7. I find I get about 1 to 2 years use out of each brush before it loses its point. Maybe I’ve just been lucky.

Same here, but not any longer apparently. I  have several 1s that are still fairly good after 3 or more years of use ( and I use them for oil paint!) After some issues three, four years ago I went back to W&N and everything seemed alright.
But this latest batch - and the one my friend bought at the same time (well, I bought it for him)- are absolutely horrible.
Tried Rosemary as well and while cheaper I never could get the hang of them.
So far my Raphaels are behaving good so for the time being I'll stick to those. Difference in size though. A Raphael 0 is actually a W&N 1 and so on.

[Daeothar]

... I never understood how people say they use the same good brush for years??? I got maybe a month or two out of each one...

Apparently, I'm one of those people.

I've got a workhorse size 1 N&W brush that was included in a mandatory gouache set I had to buy back in 1996, when I went to the art academy in Antwerp, and it's still every bit as good as when I first took it out of the box! Its point has slightly curled over time, but I feel that's an advantage, as I can get into hard to reach places with this larger brush.

I don't think it's a series 7 (the writing has long since worn off the handle), but the handle is blue, and that's consistent with the series 5 I usually buy from my local art supply shop.

The W&N series 5 brushes (blue handles) have been my go to brushes for many, many years now, and they serve me very well, even though I am pretty rough on them, and do not clean them as much as I probably should. Then again; that's possibly a reason that they last as long? A typical size 0, 00 or 000 series 5 brush lasts me for about a year or two on average, with size 0000 brushes lasting maybe a year.

Come to think of it; I even have an ancient Citadel Standard Brush (burgundy handle) that was my workhorse mixing brush for at least a decade, and is still a tier 3 brush* that I won't get rid off any time soon.

In 2006, I won a painting contest at a tournament I was attending, and the main price was a then coveted (but woefully overpriced) limited edition Citadel Brush Set, in a nice wooden box, a boltershell casing water pot, a small bar of brush soap, etc. It held a full set of W&N series 7 brushes (with a brown handle), and for a long time I held off actually using them because I was afraid I'd ruin them.

But I have been using them for years now, and they're also still excellent tier 1 brushes.

It may be that I am simply not prolific enough a painter to wear out my brushes; most years I'd be happy to finish 100 miniatures. But like I said; I can be pretty rough on my brushes; I have a tendency to let the paint run all the way up to the ferrule, I incidentally use tier 1's to drybrush or stipple when I'm in the zone, and I clean them only when it's absolutely necessary.

Over my 30 years of painting though, I've maybe had a handful of brushes splitting or fraying on me. In fact, I have a large collection of tier 3's, from which I pass a few off to my little girl every now and then, for her painting (it's in her hands that they actually die ). It's been rare in all those years for me to actually have to throw out a brush (mostly 0000 ones that have lost too many of their hairs; they seem to be the only ones that regularly do), and I buy maybe a couple each year (even when I don't  need them; they may simply be retail therapy, as I've never actually found myself lacking a brush for a certain job).

I'm really interested where this difference in experience comes from though.

- Are my standards lower than those of other painters? (probably; I once saw a female professional painter tell that she discards W&N series 7 brushes after one or two miniatures, because she wants consistency in her brushes?)
- Am I actually really, really pampering my brushes compared to others? (I can't imagine, because of the previously listed reasons)
- Was it just the luck of the draw perhaps? (can't rule that out)
- Don't I paint enough volume maybe? (this may certainly be a factor. So I'd better get painting...)


* I tend to rank my brushes into tiers; 1 is the good stuff, 2 are usually ex-1 brushes that have seen better days and 3 are either cheap Action-grade brushes or not-quite-trashed-enough-to-fully-discard ex-2 brushes. I use tier 2 for basecoating and terrain washes etc, tier 1 for the actual detailed miniature painting and tier 3 are drybrush, glue and other destructive materials applicators. Hey; it works for me

[mmcv]

I've had my W&N S7 for maybe 2 1/2 years and still seem to be in pretty good shape. I'm mostly painting small scale so the 0 and 00 get the most use, though the 1 is used for blocking in colours. Like a previous poster I would treat them as Tier 1 brushes and generally take good care of them (never leaving paint on them, cleaning well, not getting paint all the way up, etc) and they seem to be serving me well still. I've bought stacks of other cheap brushes that barely last any time at all, most of them are now used for glue, washes, primer and metals (never use the W&N for metallic paints as they destroy brushes).

I did get an army painter brush with my first big paint set, it still sees use for drybrushing and washes. Pretty good all-rounder it was.

[syrinx0]

I bought quite a few W&N 7 brushes when they came back in stock in the US a few years ago. So far at least I seem to be luck in their quality.  They last quite a long time for me given my painting habits & frequency.  That said the rosemary brushes I bought (that didn't fork at first use) have held up well too.  I will have to be cautious when I start buying more brushes.

[Yankeepedlar01]

I gave up on them years ago and switched to Rosemary’s brushes, cheaper and they certainly last longer than W&N did.

Same here! I bought cheap sable brushes at shows from Coritani and latterly ABC Brushes. The latter have proved a great buy, one size 0 brush painting two 300 figure 28mm armies last year.

[Dags]

ABC Brushes

Funny how views differ; I tried some of theirs after they were next to us at a show.... huge (well, actually, a pretty small) waste of money.