French Troops in the Wars of the Roses - Help needed

[Hu Rhu]

There were a number of occasions that French troops played a part in the Wars of the Roses and I am keen to add a contingent to my Lancastrian Troops.  However I wondered if anyone had an idea of how they were armed and dressed. 

Thanks in advance.

[Norm]

For the Bosworth campaign, Henry Tudor had French mercenaries. My understanding is that they are described as ‘long spear’ and that the long spear could be 22’ long. In view of that, I have represented the unit with the pikemen in the Perry’s Mercenaries plastic 28mm box.

I have predominantly shown them with blue tunic. From the same box, I have also done a unit of skirmishing crossbowmen, to place in front of the French ‘long spear’, though I have put Burgundian transfers on their pavises.

EDIT - you can see the pike and the x-bow amongst the pictures in this link if you click on any image you will get it enlarged. The last 4 pics are te ones that may interest you. (I am not saying I have done this right, it’s just what I have gone with).

http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2021/03/1471-rendezvous-and-ambush-at-piggy.html

[Atheling]

I think they were very unlikely to be pikes; with Bosworth being only eight years after the Swiss pike blocks (OK a Halberd but you get the picture) put pay to the military career of Charles the Bold.

Not impossible but very unlikely. Sorry for the brevity of my reply- busy!

[Norm]

I agree that it is unlikely that ‘pike’ as we understand it as a tactical block was used, but I am OK with representing the French presence with the Perry plastic pike figures, since there is nothing else that resembles 22’ long spear and  otherwise I would not get any use from that part of the Mercenaries box :-)

[Charlie_]

To be honest it could be a mix of polearms, pikes, and missile weapons.

It's worth noting that in the 1480s the French were making use of longbows, both in the ordonnance companies and the francs-archers, so French archers shouldn't be ruled out.

There was also a project in the early 1480s to train a professional French infantry force in Swiss pike tactics. It's not clear if they were predominately pikemen or more of a mixed arms force. It's also not entirely clear what happened to them - after the death of Louis XI in 1483 the camp they were training at was broken up, but I haven't found a concrete answer as to what happened to this infantry force. Was it a short-lived experiment which never saw action, or were these newly trained troops sent to garrison the Flemish border?

However it's worth thinking about who the French mercenaries at Bosworth actually were - I highly doubt they would be an organised body of troops from the French military systems, such as the ordonnance companies, the francs-archers, or the new infantry described above. Surely they would be more of a loosely organised, informal group? Though of course if experienced soldiers they would very possibly have experience serving in the aforementioned organisations, and there is potential for the mercenaries to include soldiers trained in longbow archery and pike tactics.... But perhaps i'm wrong!!! I'd love to find out more.

[Hu Rhu]

Thanks for all the good advice.  I think I will go with a more generic look, utilising a mix of crossbow armed infantry, backed by by some pole armed troops.  I also need these to represent French troops before Bosworth (Mortimers Cross, Warwicks rebellion Etc) so I won't be including pike or long spears but I might mix in a few normal spears with the pole arms just to make a visual difference.

Again although they were probably not French national troops, I want to make them stand out so will be giving them a blue tunic with a white cross and carring a French themed standard.

I'll post the finished article on my other thread The Red Rose https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=123680.0

[Atheling]

Thanks for all the good advice.  I think I will go with a more generic look, utilising a mix of crossbow armed infantry, backed by by some pole armed troops.  I also need these to represent French troops before Bosworth (Mortimers Cross, Warwicks rebellion Etc) so I won't be including pike or long spears but I might mix in a few normal spears with the pole arms just to make a visual difference.

Again although they were probably not French national troops, I want to make them stand out so will be giving them a blue tunic with a white cross and carring a French themed standard.

I'll post the finished article on my other thread The Red Rose https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=123680.0

Sounds like a good idea. We certainly have problems with the ambiguity of the meaning of the word "pike" even in the Late 15th CE. The new book authored by Predonzani, Massimo/Alberici, Vincenzo on Fornovo seems to indicate that even what was described as "Italian pike" should not be considered solid blocks of pike on the Swiss/German model  but rather as fighting in the old condottieri bands of infantry with spearmen to the fore and missile troops (in this case bows and crossbows) to the rear. This would undoubtedly have changed with time but for 1495 (Fornovo) it seems, at least to me, persuasive.

I have to caveat all this with the "we don't actually know"; but all we can do as wargamers is go on what evidence is presented to us and try to interpret it in as meaningful a personal manner as possible.