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Author Topic: Questions on Vandal armies? New questions on P3  (Read 5310 times)

Online Tim Haslam

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2021, 08:08:12 AM »
Cheers,
Yes I was looking through the same book last night.
(I had bought it for my Punic Numidian project!)

I quit like the idea of this kit bashing, I’ve had great fun making imitation legionaries for my Numidians.

Out of interest, assuming I use existing Numidian figures for these ‘Moors’ I’ll probably convert cavalry figures to ride some camels.
These are quite large plastic figures, which company makes large camel figures?
Old Essex camels perhaps?
A millionaire trapped in a peasants body!

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2021, 08:34:52 AM »
Don't you need the camels kneeling to form a nice defended obstacle against pesky Byzantine cavalry?


Might be worth checking out the last couple of pages of this thread on the medieval board the OP wanted 28mm camels for his army.

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=119599.225 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 08:42:57 AM by Diablo Jon »

Offline SJWi

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2021, 09:45:20 AM »
Chaps, Redoubt Miniatures produce a large selection of camels in their Sudan range. Obviously late 19th century but some may suit you.

 

Offline Emir of Askaristan

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2021, 11:57:57 AM »
The mosaics in the Bardo in Tunis may provide some inspiration. From what I've seen online and from (distant) memory the late Roman ones show the typical LR tunic in a variety of colours worn by a variety of the people represented, some more North African in appearance than others.

As others have said there would be a great deal of mixing and the Vandals themselves had been living in and off Roman provinces for years so may not have look particularly Germanic in outward appearance any longer.

Offline trev

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2021, 07:41:16 PM »
By the late Roman period the frontiers and far beyond were very heavily influenced by Roman culture and symbols of power with most prestige items and much actual power drawn from Rome.  So the late antiquiry Berbers were probably quite Romanised by the time of the Vandal invasion.  Africa was a key part of the late Western Empire and it's lost arguably sealed their fate.  Even the Vandals themselves were by this stage probably quite Romanised if memory serves.  I seem to recall they kept much of the Roman infustructure and administration too.  It was certainly common elsewhere and many so called Barbarians wanted a nice comfy Roman Patricians' life in their conquests.

For some Romanised Moors these figures from A&A might be worth a look.  They have some nice camels too.  Of course more classical Numidians will have wider usage and would serve well enough.  Maybe a mix of both could represent more settled and wilder groups.  Painting roman patterns on the shields and clothing would be another way to give them a later look.

Moorish Light Cavalry I
http://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=58

2X Roman Unarmoured Camel Riders With Javelins
http://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=42

Online Tim Haslam

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2021, 09:04:49 PM »
Cheers,
AandA have a deal on at the moment too!

Offline vodkafan

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2021, 08:13:16 PM »
All I know is that Vandals have no respect for Council property.. lol
I am going to build a wargames army, a big beautiful wargames army, and Mexico is going to pay for it.

2019 Painting Challenge :
figures bought: 500+
figures painted: 57
9 vehicles painted
4 terrain pieces scratchbuilt

Online Tim Haslam

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2021, 08:41:42 PM »
 ;D

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2021, 06:12:15 AM »
By the late Roman period the frontiers and far beyond were very heavily influenced by Roman culture and symbols of power with most prestige items and much actual power drawn from Rome.  So the late antiquiry Berbers were probably quite Romanised by the time of the Vandal invasion.  Africa was a key part of the late Western Empire and it's lost arguably sealed their fate.  Even the Vandals themselves were by this stage probably quite Romanised if memory serves.  I seem to recall they kept much of the Roman infustructure and administration too.  It was certainly common elsewhere and many so called Barbarians wanted a nice comfy Roman Patricians' life in their conquests.

For some Romanised Moors these figures from A&A might be worth a look.  They have some nice camels too.  Of course more classical Numidians will have wider usage and would serve well enough.  Maybe a mix of both could represent more settled and wilder groups.  Painting roman patterns on the shields and clothing would be another way to give them a later look.

Moorish Light Cavalry I
http://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=58

2X Roman Unarmoured Camel Riders With Javelins
http://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=42

Those are good points. In the end, we just don't know how far Romanisation of barbarians went militarily.  I suspect you are right, they might have similar equipment, but on a wargames table if all the barbarians looked somewhat Romanish it might get boring.
Your post reminded me of the excellent series of documentaries by Waldemar Januszczak: The Dark Ages, An Age of Light (this can be seen on Youtube) and the Fall of Rome Podcast https://wondery.com/shows/the-fall-of-rome-podcast/

This sounds like a fun project.  I hope we see more posts about this.


Offline pallard

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2021, 09:20:54 AM »
Hi
I would readily join some sahara nomads ( looking like ancien touareg) from Greeping Beast. For the long range dwellers. You may have them on foot and camel mounted.
For a dive into details and if you understand french, I have downloaded free the book from Yves Modéran, Publications de l'école française de Rome ( a prestigious french institute in Italy) : Les Maures et l'Afrique romaine ( IV-VIIe siècles). You find it on Open Edition Books on the internet. Maybe there is a translation in english somewhere too.
Philippe

Offline pallard

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2021, 09:23:26 AM »
This post gave me the impulse to consider a Vandal force to put against my Belisarian Byzantines!

Offline area23

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2021, 07:10:34 PM »
I made these a couple of years ago. A mix of Artizan Moors and West Wind Arthurians. The latter come with seperate heads so I used their Pict heads on the late Romans characters to reflect, as said above,  heavily romanised berbers. My original plan was to use their picts as berber infantry and cavalry. Mixed with Numidians it would look okay. The point I think is either long robes or bare legs.
At which point I'd also mix in other barbarian types anyway like Crusader Miniatures early saxons or franks. Or even scots. With black beards, white garb and possibly everyone with leather shields I think it would look uniform enough.

If you don't believe in lead, you're already dead.
+++AREA23 BLOG+++

Offline emosbur

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2021, 08:18:35 AM »
You need this book:

https://www.worldhistory.org/books/1874101019/

Sadly out of print and second hand copies very very expensive.

Offline SJWi

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2021, 09:49:13 AM »
Hi, the Montvert "Justinian's Wars" is "OK" but IMHO not the best from that series. The artwork is not a patch on most Ospreys . Information on the Vandal Wars comprises 5 pages of text and 1 colour plate. That said my copy is safe and sound on my bookshelf.

Offline aphillathehun

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Re: Questions on Vandal armies?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2021, 01:37:05 AM »
Cheers,
AandA have a deal on at the moment too!

AandA have one kind of deal or another every month.  I love their figs and have always had great service from them.

 

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