Questions on Vandal armies? New questions on P3

[Tim Haslam]

Hi,
Just late night thinking..

What figures would best represent Moorish troops fighting with the Vandals in North Africa?
Light cavalry, infantry and possibly camelry?

Also when organising a Vandal army, would I use a single unit of Bucellarii as a bodyguard so to speak or would there be multiple units?

If I do this army I’ll probably use Gripping Beast plastics for the Vandal figures as I already have loads!
Hence my question on the Moorish troops.

Thanks

[LazyStudent]

Hi Tim,

I'm guessing by Moorish, you mean the pre-Islamic North African troops who came from the interior of the province and were not the Roman settler-locals of the coastal strip, correct? Although, they would certainly have been mixing and merging. After all, that part of the world has been Roman for 500+ yrs.

If that's the case, then I'd suggest starting with any of the Numidian boxes on the market. It is the same part of the world, and the clothing didn't change too much. You might want to kit bash with some late Roman figures to represent the mixed population.

But in the end, I'm sure it was nowhere near a uniform bunch, so whatever you want to do will likely be suitable!

Best,
LS

[FierceKitty]

And have a look at what Moors and Berbers actually look like; it's a few seconds on Google.

[carlos marighela]

Remember to get a phone booth as an objective marker. It’s their favourite target.

[Blackwolf]

Don’t forget Tim the Vandals had Alans within their units,possibly not looking too different,though you may like to throw in some steppe horsemen for variety (and I find the Alan’s/Sarmatians fascinating).

[Tim Haslam]

Thanks for the input guys.
I have considered the Victrix Numidians, as I’m just finishing a full Numidian force for the Punic period, and a little later as I’ve added imitation legionaries too.
 I’m using all Victrix figures and I must say I’m very impressed with them.

However looking through my limited library of resource books, I’m finding moorish troops looking a bit more ‘Arabic’ looking. This has got me wondering when they did actually start to dress this way???

I’m also a bit fuzzy on the Bucellarii troops, as a single bodyguard or multiple units?
Thanks

[Tim Haslam]

You see my question,
At some point we get a cross over from Numidian looking to Arabic looking.
I suppose this gives me a bit of artistic licence perhaps?

The Numidian figures from Victrix are an extremely flexible kit.
I could for example give them cloaks and perhaps a hippo hide shield to move them slightly forward in time?

[OB]

Important men had Bucellarii.  The more important the man the more Bucellarii he might have in his service.

If your army has three Generals each would have a unit of Bucellarii with him.  The C in C's Bucellarii unit likely would be bigger than those of the others.

As for the appearance of the Moors at this time have a look at the Lurkio ones in 15mm.  I think they are a good example of what you are looking for.  It wouldn't be too difficult to convert some 28mm Numidians to produce the desired effect.

[SJWi]

By the way if building a Vandal army you may wish to look at the book on the topic by Simon McDowell published by Pen & Sword. Simon has a good reputation as both a Wargamer and pretty knowledgeable about the period.

[Diablo Jon]

The wargames research group book "Rome and it's Enemies" shows moorish cavalry looking very much like a Numidian from several hundred years earlier. In the WRG "Armies of the dark ages" book they show Moorish infantry for the initial invasion of Spain as  wearing a loincloth and equipped with a small hide shield and light spears for some reason though those moors are clearly of sub Saharan lineage though the book gives no explanation why that would be.

[SJWi]

Diablo Jon, thanks for the memories. Both those books date back to either the ‘70s or ‘80s and may have been overtaken by more modern scholarship. For the Numidians Osprey recently released a book on the topic in their Men-at-Arms range. Covers up to 300AD.

[Diablo Jon]

Diablo Jon, thanks for the memories. Both those books date back to either the ‘70s or ‘80s and may have been overtaken by more modern scholarship. For the Numidians Osprey recently released a book on the topic in their Men-at-Arms range. Covers up to 300AD.

For some reason your answer made think of this thread....

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=114487.msg1433802#msg1433802

[guitarheroandy]

Bucellari in this period were generally the warlord's bodyguard (the word 'comitatus' is more usually used for barbarian warlords' bodyguards. In some tribes/peoples these would be family members, other nobility, etc and they'd be well-equipped with the best kit and decent horses), so ideally one per army.

The Byzantines seem to be a tad different though as Bukellari in their early armies were essentially private mercenary forces raised by the Generals to supplement the regular troops (the regulars weren't necessarily as reliable and also having a private army did make a general a pretty powerful figure in his own right - useful when dealing with the whims of Eastern Roman emperors!) This is why most army lists allow more than one unit per Byzantine army. These would be Goths, Huns, Franks, Sarmatians, Alans, etc - maybe even other Vandals (they may even have fought against the Byzantines previously, for other employers). They'd be well-equipped (although probably not uniformed) and well-motivated because they were essentially professional warriors. They often made up a substantial part of the army in the Justinian era.

Hope that helps a bit...

[Tim Haslam]

It’s all great stuff!
Thanks

I too have just dug out my old WRG books and armies and enemies books!

[SJWi]

Tim, I've just looked at my copy of the Osprey book on the Numidians. Although it says it covers 300BC-300AD, there is very little detail for the period after the area became a Roman province. There is one stele which they say comes from the 2nd-3rd century AD and shows some cavalry in short tunics, one with a cloak and all with javelins.....the classic Numidian dress from the Punic Wars through to Trajan's column. . I don't think anyone will be able to contradict you if you use most existing Numidian ranges, with maybe the odd "Late Roman" bearded head added to a few figures.