Element-based sci-fi games apart from Alien Squad Leader?

[Sir_Theo]

Wasn't 40k Apocalypse just the old Epic Armageddon rules repackaged for use with 40k models?

I might be wrong but I sort of dismissed it as that at the time (not that they weren't good rules- better than 40k anyway!)

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Wasn't 40k Apocalypse just the old Epic Armageddon rules repackaged for use with 40k models?

I might be wrong but I sort of dismissed it as that at the time (not that they weren't good rules- better than 40k anyway!)

Nope.  You're probably thinking of the earlier 40K Armageddon rules, which were designed to let you put tens or hundreds of thousands of 4oK points on the tables at once.  It still wasn't really Epic-like (any version), just an excuse to put more models on the table.  Didn't work very well in my opinion.

Apocalypse used actual element bases (or at least movement trays) for infantry, had completely different stat cards to any previous game, and weirdly used a mix of d6 and d12 dice for resolving combat.  First time we had a d12 since what, 2nd edition multi-meltas? 

There was also Epic 40K, but that was designed for 6mm figs and (in hindsight) played like a prototype of Epic Armageddon, which was teh next iteration of the long, convoluted Epic game series.  First edition of Epic that used the blast marker mechanic to reflect morale/disruption/being pinned under fire.  I suppose you could have played it in 28mm rather than 6mm using element bases for infantry and modifying movement and ranges, but it would have been a bit of a  pain to do so.

I’m not sure 40k Appocalyse was element based - but as it treated each unit as a single entity, it could easily have been.

Weren't the movement trays they made specifically for the game element bases?  I guess maybe it's just semantics - like you said each unit was a separate element no matter what model(s) made it up.

[Menelduir]

Depending on your needs and preferences, Dirtside might work for you, it has for me. While intended for 6mm gaming it is not a stretch to use it for larger scale (just scale up the bases and ranges) The infantry move as elements on bases and stay together as units. The rules allow you to stat out any vehicle that you might have and are quick to play.

Even better, the rules can be downloaded for free over at Ground Zero Games (GZG)

A friend of mine did the math to convert the chit drawing into a simple chart (neither of us were keen to keep drawing chits)

[Sir_Theo]

Nope.  You're probably thinking of the earlier 40K Armageddon rules, which were designed to let you put tens or hundreds of thousands of 4oK points on the tables at once.  It still wasn't really Epic-like (any version), just an excuse to put more models on the table.  Didn't work very well in my opinion.

Apocalypse used actual element bases (or at least movement trays) for infantry, had completely different stat cards to any previous game, and weirdly used a mix of d6 and d12 dice for resolving combat.  First time we had a d12 since what, 2nd edition multi-meltas? 

There was also Epic 40K, but that was designed for 6mm figs and (in hindsight) played like a prototype of Epic Armageddon, which was teh next iteration of the long, convoluted Epic game series.  First edition of Epic that used the blast marker mechanic to reflect morale/disruption/being pinned under fire.  I suppose you could have played it in 28mm rather than 6mm using element bases for infantry and modifying movement and ranges, but it would have been a bit of a  pain to do so.

Weren't the movement trays they made specifically for the game element bases?  I guess maybe it's just semantics - like you said each unit was a separate element no matter what model(s) made it up.

No I mean Epic Armageddon. The 2003 Jervis Johnson game- which I guess would have been the third (or fourth?) edition of Epic? (After Titanicus/Space Marine/Titan Legions and then  Epic 40k). Nothing to do with 40k apart from the setting- or the Armageddon 40k supplement that came later.

Looks like I was wrong anyway- I just didn't expect GW to come up with a new game when they could just rehash am old one.

[Chief Lackey Rich]

Depending on your needs and preferences, Dirtside might work for you, it has for me. While intended for 6mm gaming it is not a stretch to use it for larger scale (just scale up the bases and ranges) The infantry move as elements on bases and stay together as units. The rules allow you to stat out any vehicle that you might have and are quick to play.

Even better, the rules can be downloaded for free over at Ground Zero Games (GZG)

A friend of mine did the math to convert the chit drawing into a simple chart (neither of us were keen to keep drawing chits)

There used to be several sites with charts that let you use dice to emultae randomizer chit draws, but they're eluding me at this point.  BGG has this thing, though:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/22829/dsii-chit-pullerxls

[Storm Wolf]

Sorry I didn't go through the whole thread to check but I will throw Hammer's Slammers The Crucible into the mix and OGRE/GEV miniatures rules in just for good measure.

http://www.hammers-slammers.com/home.htm

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/products/ogregev/

Happy hunting

Glen

[Major_Gilbear]

Another one to consider might be Mantic's Warpath.

A bit like the latest iteration of Apocalypse 40k, it uses individual models set on a sabot multibase; however, much like its 40k counterpart, it is a game better suited to smaller scale figures with infantry fixed multiply to a base... A bit like Epic 40k!

Anyway, the rules are free here, so it wouldn't cost you a lot to look through and maybe try it out if you fancy.

There's a background/sourcebook for it here (also free), and a skirmish version of the game here in case you fancy some small commando raid style adventures (still free!).

(Small disclaimer though; I've not played it!).

[Cypher226]

Another option is Halo: Ground Command.  While the game is out of production, the fan community is quite solid and 3d files are available for almost all units with new ones being added reasonably regularly.  Spartan and 343 industries seemingly gave their blessings for the community to continue working on the game after the former folder.

Rules are available free in the Ground Command Facebook group.- if you don't have FB but want to take a look, let me know and I'll see if I can mirror them on Dropbox.

[williamb]

Future War Commander uses elements and has army lists in the rule book.

[Keeper Nilbog]

Agis's Victory Decision:Future War can by played with bases (I think the idea was to account for 15 (FoW) mm multiple bases - as these are a SF version of his WWII set). Also includes a fairly flexible army list system

Played "Alien Squad Leader" when the Author first released it (part of the Lincoln Barn Club). The system is great, and the second (current?) Edition improved on it

Recommended.

And I second "Warpath", it's a great game

[krieghund]

Apologies for the tangent.

A quick question for you ASL players, does the game use a 3x3 board or a 4x4 board?

[Hobgoblin]

Apologies for the tangent.

A quick question for you ASL players, does the game use a 3x3 board or a 4x4 board?

It's 4x4 up.

Many thanks, everyone, for the other suggestions. I'll certainly look into them.

[Major_Gilbear]

One more for you Hobgoblin: Epic 40k.

Yes, I know it's OoP, but the rules and such are easy enough to come by if you search a bit.

All troops, light vehicles, and weapons were based multiply, with normal and large vehicles being individual.

Although it's perhaps not "true" element basing, the gameplay certainly was aimed at that, and force selection was pretty easy and generous too.

It'll only take you an afternoon to read the rules, play a solo test game or two, and then you'll pretty much know it by heart.

Despite the hard time old Epic fans gave it, and the alleged superiority of its successor Epic Armageddon, it is still one of my favourite games of all time.

[jetengine]

Theres also "Restless Galaxies" by Blood and Spectacle gaames on Wargames Vault. It's kind of a bodge of the Rampant system with extra bits thrown in to give you a cool mini scale sci fi game. It's not too expensive either!

[Glasvandrare]

Another one to consider might be Mantic's Warpath.

I ended up downloading this, based on your recommendation, and found most of what att least i was looking for in a game like this, with multibased infantry, different types of actions, and orders.
While I might end up tweaking some things, or mashing together with F28 which has some similar concepts, it is a good base for what i want in a 15mm battle game.