Varnishing Disaster! Help Urgently Needed Please? (Pic Heavy)

[Atheling]

Warning,- I'm going to name names in this article. I'm at once both distraught and furious! I have never had a varnishing disaster like this before in all my decades of experience.

Help! In order to preserve my dwindling supplies of the superb Winsor and Newton Professional Matt Varnish I ordered some Minibits Deluxe Matt Varnish from Pendraken Miniatures. Five cans in fact. I used this over my normal Humbrol Gloss coat and the results were very satin! A far cry from what I am used to which is a very flat matt I get with the Winsor and Newton Professional Matt Varnish.

I then tried to brush on some matt varnish and it just ran off the model like I was pouring water on!

I had one can of Colourforge Matt Varnish, which  I was going to try out on some terrain, and applied it over the Minibits Deluxe Matt Varnish. What you see below is the result! Not only has there been extreme frosting but the varnish has actually cracked on the models!

I am absolutely distraught. As I have said, I have never had such a terrible result with any varnish in all of my painting days which amounts to over two decades- longer if I include my youth!

Normally, if I get a bit of frosting I would re gloss then repeat with the Winsor and Newton Professional Matt Varnish

If anyone has a solution to this please, please contact me and let me know.

Here's the mess:

[2010sunburst]

That’s awful mate.  It looks like the last coat flash dried on the under layers and shrunk back, so cracking the surface.  Is it a solvent varnish like W & N?  If so, you may be able to remove it by gently brushing with an old soft brush lightly moistened with the appropriate solvent?  Don’t flood it or you will take the lot off. 

[Atheling]

That’s awful mate.  It looks like the last coat flash dried on the under layers and shrunk back, so cracking the surface.  Is it a solvent varnish like W & N?  If so, you may be able to remove it by gently brushing with an old soft brush lightly moistened with the appropriate solvent?  Don’t flood it or you will take the lot off.

Thanks for the reply. I don't really have any solvent to use and due to Sars Cov 2 I cannot leave the house to buy anything.

I don't think that will work TBH. The pictures only tell part of the story 

[vexillia]

Is this right:

Humbrol Gloss (left to dry for a week)
Minibits Deluxe Matt Varnish (dried with a satin sheen)
Unknown brush on matt varnish (ran off)
Colourforge Matt Varnish (varnish layers cracked)

Some questions:

[1] How long did you leave the Minibits varnish to dry/cure?
[2] Which brush on did you use?
[3] Did you use the brush on varnish on all models?
[4] Did the Colourforge varnish frost immediately?
[5] Did the Colourforge varnish crack immediately?

With this information I might be able to hazard a guess at the cause.  My working hypothesis is that Colourforge varnish contains a solvent that reacted badly with the previous layers (either Minibits or Humbrol).

[Silent Invader]

If you watch the relevant part of this video, the painter has issues with Colourforge Matt Varnish and he shows how he fixed the resulting frosting

[Atheling]

Is this right:

Humbrol Gloss (left to dry for a week)
Minibits Deluxe Matt Varnish (dried with a satin sheen)
Unknown brush on matt varnish (ran off)
Colourforge Matt Varnish (varnish layers cracked)

Some questions:

OK....

[1] How long did you leave the Minibits varnish to dry/cure?

1 week.

[2] Which brush on did you use?

It was actually AK Ultra Matt that ran off like water but I don't like to give them publicity as they produced a "Painting the Holocaust" book. I used it as an absolute last resort but it would not adhere at all to the model post Minibits Deluxe Matt Varnish (dried with a satin sheen)

[3] Did you use the brush on varnish on all models?

No. Just the leg of one horse then stopped, dabbed what didn't immediately run off with a tissue.

[4] Did the Colourforge varnish frost immediately?

Yes. Within an hour.

[5] Did the Colourforge varnish crack immediately?

Yes, within an hour.

With this information I might be able to hazard a guess at the cause.  My working hypothesis is that Colourforge varnish contains a solvent that reacted badly with the previous layers (either Minibits or Humbrol).

Thanks. If you can think of any way in which I can salvage these miniature I would be very grateful Martin.

[Atheling]

If you watch the relevant part of this video, the painter has issues with Colourforge Matt Varnish and he shows how he fixed the resulting frosting

Thanks mate. I watched his video before posting but the issue is not just with frosting, it is with the paint cracking too.

[Silent Invader]

Thanks mate. I watched his video before posting but the issue is not just with frosting, it is with the paint cracking too.

Regarding the cracking, if unable to use solvents to soften the coating then I’d just take fine wet and dry paper to it then retouch/repaint as necessary.

[Atheling]

Regarding the cracking, if unable to use solvents to soften the coating then I’d just take fine wet and dry paper to it then retouch/repaint as necessary.

Which I don't have either unfortunately. 

[2010sunburst]

You could give this stuff a try, it’s available mail order..
https://www.jacksonsart.com/winsor-newton-artisan-75ml-varnish-remover

[Major_Gilbear]

I had similar disasters happen in the past, and I think it's due not only to the solvents in the different varnishes interacting with each other, but possibly also the number of layers (and whether you handled the model in between at all). Sometimes, instead of or as well as, the affected area becomes sticky over time and sloughs off.

Looking at your close-up photos, it appears that the gold armour scales seem to be affected too (though to a lesser extent, and the pattern of the scales has helped hide the texture).  It looks like one of the penultimate layer of varnish was reactivated and softened by the last layer, and then the last layer has cured before the penultimate reactivated layer was able to de-gas and flatten out again. In effect, the the layer underneath has swollen from solvent, and now it has nowhere to go. It may (if it's not already) dry out fully in time, but unfortunately the wrinkling damage is permanent now I think. At least the varnish under the wrinkles seems to have protected the paint, so you might be able to salvage it...

Moving forward, fewer coats of fewer types of varnish is generally better I find. I normally do two thinned gloss coats (water-based, brush-on), and then one matte coat (cellulose, sprayed from a can). I also don't touch the model with my fingers at all in between varnish coats, and only touch them after the final coat has had at least 24hours to cure. The models are set aside in a warm (but not hot) room, somewhere dust free. Hard-won personal experience has taught me to do this, so I prefer to just be cautious now - my painting simply takes me too long to risk having to start again.

To fix the wrinkles, there's not a lot to be done unfortunately. If you have some Isopropyl alcohol (90%+) or similar, you can put some on a cotton bud and using small circular motions attempt to remove the varnish from the affected area. Although you have a better than usual change of getting away with it successfully, I would not be surprised if this also starts to remove the paint too (although at least it would be in controlled areas). Where I've had light frosting on models, this technique has fixed it enough to allow a re-spray of the matt varnish. Where frosting is heavy or extensive, it hasn't been successful, and so I've either resorted to limited repair of affected areas through overpainting, or a full strip of the model.

If you don't have any Isoprop (I buy mine online through eBay), you could have a go with some acetone-free nail polish remover instead, but this is even riskier than the Isoprop and has a better chance of lifting the paint too.

My conclusion at this point is to try the Isoprop; you have nothing to lose now, but everything to gain. If you're lucky, you may be able to salvage it. If you're not, at least you have the stuff on hand that you need to strip the model and start again.

[tin shed gamer]

I bought some at the last Partizan. It trashed this figure. I thought it was possibly and issue with the print.
However your issues confirms it the matt varnish.
I'd  given the figure additional UV treatment on receiving  them . Washed and dried 24hrs appart. Spray undercoated with a primer. 48hrs of room temperature drying. Then painted.24hrs drying then varnished . No signs of anything going wrong until I took some pictures the following day. ( I only noticed after posting the pictures on here.)
Luckily I only did two test figures one mounted and one on foot. There's no similar cracking on the mounted figure. However it does have the paint completely worn off the tips of the horses tail.

[vexillia]

Thanks. If you can think of any way in which I can salvage these miniature I would be very grateful Martin.

OK here goes ...

First thing is you have two problems: frosting & cracking.  The former is due to the top layer of the Colourforge varnish & the latter is due to an interaction with the solvent in the Colourforge varnish and the other varnish layers.

Is there any chance you over-sprayed the Colourforge varnish?  I ask because the amount of solvent applied will have been crucial.

The video suggesting a gloss varnish to cure the frosting seems sensible but it won't deal with the cracking which looks to have lifted the surface of what looks like a varnish layer.

What is on your side is the different properties of the acrylic paint and the various varnishes.  The only thing I can suggest is wiping one horse leg with white spirit on a cotton bud as a test.  Give it time to penetrate the varnish then repeat.  It shouldn't penetrate the paint but may lift the varnish.  You are attempting to remove the Humbrol layer.

You could also try isopropyl alcohol but this will lift the paint as well as the varnish.  Again test first.

If any of this works then you can treat the worst areas before re-sealing and matt varnishing to deal with the frosting.

It would also be worth contact Minibits & Colourforge asking what solvent they use in their sprays.  If it's the same (as I suspect it will be) then the second coat was a step too far.

[Atheling]

OK here goes ...

First thing is you have two problems: frosting & cracking.  The former is due to the top layer of the Colourforge varnish & the latter is due to an interaction with the solvent in the Colourforge varnish and the other varnish layers.

Is there any chance you over-sprayed the Colourforge varnish?  I ask because the amount of solvent applied will have been crucial.

No Martin mate. I'm always extremely careful. Always short sprays., leave to dry go back and repeat.

The video suggesting a gloss varnish to cure the frosting seems sensible but it won't deal with the cracking which looks to have lifted the surface of what looks like a varnish layer.

What is on your side is the different properties of the acrylic paint and the various varnishes.  The only thing I can suggest is wiping one horse leg with white spirit on a cotton bud as a test.  Give it time to penetrate the varnish then repeat.  It shouldn't penetrate the paint but may lift the varnish.  You are attempting to remove the Humbrol layer.

You could also try isopropyl alcohol but this will lift the paint as well as the varnish.  Again test first.

If any of this works then you can treat the worst areas before re-sealing and matt varnishing to deal with the frosting.

It would also be worth contact Minibits & Colourforge asking what solvent they use in their sprays.  If it's the same (as I suspect it will be) then the second coat was a step too far.

In order to mitigate the disheartening effect of the disaster I'm going to put the project away and paint something else.

Otherwise I'm in serious danger of just giving up the hobby. That was two weeks painting those 12 cavalry models and having to live with the effects of hyper anxiety too.

It's best I put it away and start on something afresh. I'm sure I'll be able to return to the project some day.....

Thanks for your help everyone. It's good to know that people give a hoot

[Major_Gilbear]

In order to mitigate the disheartening effect of the disaster I'm going to put the project away and paint something else.

Otherwise I'm in serious danger of just giving up the hobby. That was two weeks painting those 12 cavalry models and having to live with the effects of hyper anxiety too.

It's best I put it away and start on something afresh. I'm sure I'll be able to return to the project some day.....

I'm very sorry to hear that, as I was following along in your thread/blog, and was looking forward to seeing these all finished and based. I completely understand though.

Thanks for your help everyone. It's good to know that people give a hoot

Of course, don't be silly!