Pak-43 for italians? (and other AT/AA info)

[Col.Stone]

Did they see any use with the italians, in sicily or elsewhere?
failing that, did italy use any of the 88's, i need AT-guns 

I know of the lancia with Cannone Da 90/53 already..

[Doc Twilight]

They did indeed use 88s, but the 90/53 gun (not just mounted on the Lancia, but used in several other ways) was both more common in Italian service and, as it happens, a slightly more effective weapon. (The armor penetration was more effective at slightly longer ranges, don't have the data in front of me at the moment, but anyway... it was a good weapon.) As I said, there were a few 88s, but they were really sparse in comparison to Italian 90s.

On Sicily, very few of the guns were mounted as "Autocannones" (that is, on trucks); some sources say that none of them were, others say that a handful were. I was unable to confirm either when writing my book, so I usually assume they were there in very small numbers. The 90s were typically found either on field mounts, or on the Semovente da 90/53, quite an impressive weapon in its own right (25 of the 30 built were used on Sicily). The remainder of the Semovente 90s were used against the Germans at Rome, as were several Semovente 105s.

I'm not aware of any PAK 43 guns in Italian service, although I'm sure it's possible they may have acquired a few in '43.

There were quite a few indigenous Italian anti-tank designs, and the "Effeto Pronto" round made them more effective than they would have been under normal circumstances. The most common was of course the ubiquitous 47mm (which was a really excellent weapon), but there were also 37s, 75s, etc. Virtually all of them would have been used on Sicily. Just about any artillery that wasn't nailed down or being refitted was rushed to the Island in defense. They would have used the railroad guns if they'd managed to figure out how to get them over;)

Italian armor on Sicily included Semovente 90s, Semovente 75s, Semovente 47s, Fiat 2000s, CV35s. and R-35s. Some M15/42s were slated for the island but they didn't arrive in time, and ended up being used in Italy (again, mainly against the Germans). These carried a long version of the 47mm, which was (again) a very effective weapon, despite the calibre.

Hope this helps.

-Doc

[Col.Stone]

Lots of help

I'm having trouble finding AT&AA gunsfor my 28mm italians, besides the Chieftan models/companyB lancia with 90/53, there really isn't much choice, strategia e tattica has the 47mm, but a minimum order of €20 or so has put me off buying one just to see it
which is why i've started considering getting some "looted" gear =)

[Doc Twilight]

Lots of help

I'm having trouble finding AT&AA gunsfor my 28mm italians, besides the Chieftan models/companyB lancia with 90/53, there really isn't much choice, strategia e tattica has the 47mm, but a minimum order of €20 or so has put me off buying one just to see it
which is why i've started considering getting some "looted" gear =)

I know what you mean. Italian gear in 28mm is ridiculously rare, especially if you *gasp* want to fight outside North Africa. I plan to do a few Italian vehicles in my miniatures range, but obviously that isn't much help to you now:(. I wish I could think of something, but if I come across anything, I'll let you know.

-Doc

[Col.Stone]

Much appreciated

yeah, i just want to do mediterranean/russia, so most of the stuff is of little value to me, sunhelmets and shorts everywhere

I do have a bunch of Chieftain models/companyB's L6/40 paper-tanks, but they just aren't much value against t34's

I did see that warlord/bolt action are planning a 47/32 in the near future, that should keep me happy for awhile

[former user]

the Italians had Railway guns???

[Col.Stone]

anzio annie

i suppose it was german, but it was in italy

[Doc Twilight]

Actually, they did have railway guns. They didn't see much service until the defense of Italy and the Italian Civil War of 1943-45. There was a grandiose plan to mount of them on a barge and use it against Albania, but it never panned out. The largest Italian gun of the war to see service was actually a coastal mount - 350mm.

There were also armored trains in Africa, some of which had smaller mounted artillery, but they were used almost exclusively to run supplies.

-Doc

[former user]

again armoured trains...
where can I read this without having to pester You about every detail?

[Col.Stone]

writing my book,

which one would that be btw

[Doc Twilight]

"where can I read this without having to pester You about every detail?"

I'll need to check my books for the reference, former user. Can't think of it off hand.

which one would that be btw

It's a basic guide to the Italian Armed Forces in WW2 called "Con Tutto Il Cuore" - for the "Panzer Korps" miniatures game. Not exactly a many pages thick thesis, but I do have a lot of information packed into there. You can get it from Caliver Books, The Warstore, and a few other places.

-Doc

[former user]

thank You Doc
I am not on the run, just interested in this special topic

[Hauptgefreiter]

Hello former user,
if you're interested in railway guns, are you aware of this book?
http://www.amazon.de/Eisenbahngesch%C3%BCtze-Welt-Franz-Kosar/dp/3613019760

[Col.Stone]

Cheers Doc, looks like a useful supplement

[Doc Twilight]

Cheers Doc, looks like a useful supplement

You're welcome. Occasionally people who have it tell me they like it, but I have no idea how well its sold, etc. It was designed for use as a general reference for wargamers/military history enthusiasts, not use PK players. It was a really interesting book to work on - got to plow through a lot of data, and learned more about Mussolini than I ever really wanted to;)

Oh yes, I also confirmed that at least sixty percent of the material that certain wargaming companies spew about the Italians is absolute bollocks!;)

I'll dig up my copy of the book and try to get some data (basic) here for you about the anti-tank guns. Just give me a bit.

In the interest of shameless self promotion... I also just did one on the Hungarian Army ("To the Last Huszar"), one on the Minor Allies in 1940 (Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Norway) that hasn't been released, and I'm working on the book for Finland.

-Alex