Too high expectations for metal mini manufacturers?

[WorkShy]

Hi

Ok so I'm back painting minis after 15-20 years out of the game. Overall bit disappointed with the metal minis in terms of detail but mainly quality control and service really. By comparison, impressed by the progress of plastic minis. Prefer them hugely over metal but unfortunately in my preferred era, late Antiquity and early Medieval, metal is still the way to go. At least until Victrix release those late Romans.

The worst example is Footsore. I really like what they produce and they paint very well. Nonetheless, many of the minis are are unusable. Multiple holes in the pewter, unbelievable amount of flash, broken legs on horses, mold lines you can't easily remove (over faces for example). If I buy a pack of 4 minis, nearly always 1 has major issue but in some cases it's been as bad as 3. Plus delivery times are daft. I've been waiting almost four weeks to get a small £100 order.

Do you complain if you get poor quality minis and service? I have been but I wonder if I'm being unreasonable. Is the correct MO here that you just buy 2-3x what you need and weed out the good ones, using the rest for modding other minis. Just accept the QC is poor and delivery times from some companies are terrible. 

My feeling is that wargaming/mini painting as a hobby is dirt cheap compared to pretty much anything else I do. For example, if I buy a gaming PC it's £2-3k for the PC and another £1-2k for the monitors etc. I'm really not price sensitive. I just want high quality, delivered quickly but that seems hard to achieve.

[Tym]

Never had that issue with Footsore but have with other manufacturers.  Do feel that some times I just order at the wrong time just before the mold dies!

[Inkpaduta]

I can't say I agree about quality of metal figures.
All my figures are metal and I have encountered the
problems that you have. I think the quality is getting
better (IMHO).

[Elbows]

I've had bad products in most materials.  Probably more with resin figures than any other material.

I have a hobby blog that no one reads, but I don't post negative content generally speaking - some of the resin "disasters" I've received have pushed me to post about them, they're that bad.

I do find a vast array of metals can vary immensely in simple quality from botht he sculpting side and the production side.  Some recent metal miniatures are simply sublime, namely those who take the time to digital sculpt and get a quality master done up.  Knuckleduster Miniatures for instances are some of the cleanest, nicest metal miniatures I've ever seen.

I will add a caveat though; as a hobby...I find (as with most hobbies) that wargamers are pretty generous and supportive when it comes to small manufacturers, even if their quality or sculpting is not on par with a lot of other companies.

[armchairgeneral]

Can’t say I have had many problems with metals. The only recent one I can think of was with Footsore. Their Richard Lionheart figure was missing the separate arm it comes with. Once I emailed them a photo they soon had another one in the post to me.

As for plastic late Romans, don’t you like GB?

https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/GBP24_Plastic_Roman_SAGA_Starter_4_point--product--5916.html

[fred]

I’ve seen the odd miscast figure - but at much much lower frequency than you are seeing.

At that frequency I’d certainly be going back to let the manufacturer know and be asking for replacements.

As too speed of delivery a few weeks can be common where manufacturers are casting to order.

[tikitang]

I'm not a wide collector of miniatures, but of all the ones I've bought in my brief time in this hobby, the only metal ones I've had any problems with at all have been Newline Designs, where they all came on wonky bases, which were good for nothing except to be cut/sawed off, which took an extraordinary amount of effort.

Metal is my favourite miniature medium; I'm extremely reluctant to use anything else, and all the newer ones I've had the pleasure to work with (such as Bob Murch's Pulp Figures, for example) are absolutely top-notch in terms of casting quality.

[WorkShy]

Never had that issue with Footsore but have with other manufacturers.  Do feel that some times I just order at the wrong time just before the mold dies!

I do get a feeling with some of the Footsore late romans I've ordered this is exactly the problem. My timing is immaculate as normal!

As for plastic late Romans, don’t you like GB?
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/GBP24_Plastic_Roman_SAGA_Starter_4_point--product--5916.html

I don't mind their late roman cavalry and find it useful to mix parts from different sprues. I've bashed out some quite tolerable armoured horse archers from mixing the light cav with heavy cav. The infantry though seem really quite poor. I've bought a few Victrix sprues (clearly not late Roman) and the difference in quality is huge. To be fair to GB though, the Victrix stuff was produced almost a decade later.

The issue with Footsore is they don't seem at all responsive. I had to ask more than once for poor quality minis to be replaced. They gave excuses like they are a small business. How is that my problem? Plus they blame slow orders on some Kickstarter. Again not my issue. I'm going to end up spending a fe hundred month on minis for the next few years to build up my collection, I want the suppliers to actually provide a high quality product and good service. I don't want to have to send packs back, write emails etc. Perhaps my order sizes are just too small for them to care.

By comparison, I don't like the Warlord minis as much as Footsore but when I deal with them they are hugely responsive even on a tiny £100 order. They happily customize the order and it gets sent out next day.
 

[fred]

I don’t think your expectations are unreasonable - nor is a £100 order small.

[NotifyGrout]

I can think of three issues with metal models I've had:

1) Malifaux 1st Edition. Got a Crooked Man whose face was a blobby mess. Took a pic, sent it to Wyrd, and they sent me a replacement with no issues.

2) Taban Miniatures. Got a metal version of this model back when Game Kastle was FRP Games. I got two left arms. Taban quickly (well, as quickly as overseas shipping will go) sent me a pair of replacements to ensure I had one of each.

3) Zenit Miniatures. This one is a bummer, because the sculpts are nice (the undead samurai and bushi are really cool), but the ones I got as part of a Kickstarter were a nightmare to assemble, with several tiny parts that didn't fit into their intended spaces clearly. I'd still like to revisit their Kensei rulebook in the future, but it will be with someone else's models.

[eilif]

I don’t think your expectations are unreasonable - nor is a £100 order small.

Agree completely. With the issues Workshy experienced, I'd expect replacements from the company shipped at no charge.

We're participating in a hobby where goods are often produced, packed and sold by the same crew.  Every company has duds slip through, but if it's happening repeatedly, then you can be fairly sure someone is seeing junk figures and making the conscious decision to pack them anyway and that's not cool.  Even if it's an outside company doing the casting, the owner has the responsibility to not sell faulty figs.

[Ockius]

Personally, I don’t mind a little cleaning up of metal figures, as time wise it doesn’t take any longer than cutting and assembling plastic figures does. It definitely depends on the make and even on the exact run of figures and the mould they are from.
For me I would say:
- Exceptionally good metal figures with hardly any cleanup and sharp detail:
- Ral Partha’s Demonworld 15mm (barely a mould line to be seen. Better than any plastic 15mm figure)
- AB Figures Napoleonics
- Xan Miniatures Napoleonics
- Khurasan 15mm

More disappointing (at times) have been-
- Alternative Armies’ 15mm Renaissance stuff. A couple of dodgy throwaway models from that, but other ranges of theirs have been fine.
- Old Glory 15mm Renaissance - pretty nice models really but some ugly chunks of blurry metal in places.


I much prefer metals on the whole, and don’t like digital sculpting at all! I like the handcrafted touch as I think it has more character.

[Gribb]

My experience with various companies:

Perry Miniatures. Exceptional sculpting but unfortunately the casting can be a bit underwhelming. That said when I have received miscasts beyond repair I have sent them an email with photos. They are usually very responsive and owe up to it by offering replacements. Not every company does that.

Empress Miniatures. Love the sculpting and casting by Griffin is usually solid. A lot of the ranges are colonial and post 1945 moderns which are not my cup of tea. Love the WW1 range, though. Only once have I received a pack of figures which were poorly casted. So I sent them an email with photos and they agreed to send a replacement. Which I would receive the next time I placed an order.. That was rather disappointing.

Eagles of Empire Miniatures. Excellent sculpting by Ebob. The sculpting is unusual for historical miniatures in a good way. Slender and natural looking anatomy. Superb casting by Griffin. Great communication by the company. Received a couple of figures with broken rifles. Sent an email with photos and the owner immediately sent replacements.

[Cubs]

My own thoughts are -

1) If you get the odd nasty cast in an otherwise decent lot, well ... that's the hobby and I'd just clean it up as best I could. If there's a lot of poorly cast models I'd return them and expect a refund (plus my return postage cost) or replacement. A lot of companies won't even bother asking for the return. I think most manufacturers would welcome the feedback that their casters aren't producing an acceptable quality and that they've missed it in their own quality control. It happens.

2) Communication is key. I expect an answer within 24-48hrs if I've emailed or messaged the company in question, even if it's just an acknowledgement of the receipt of my communication and they will be dealing with it as soon as possible. Yes, spring is always a very busy time for companies with new ranges and shows, so I expect delays, but a quick courtesy reply to let me know they're on it is expected and appreciated.

3) There's a lot of choice and the market will often force a company to either provide good service or go out of business. The customer dictates success for any business and the days of being able to run a hobby business like a hobby are over. So long as you are courteous and reasonable in your expectations, you shouldn't feel guilty for insisting on getting a good product for your money. Any business that wants or deserves to keep getting your money will listen to your concerns.

[eilif]

Was just havering a similar discussion on another forum and this....

My experience with various companies:

They are usually very responsive and owe up to it by offering replacements. Not every company does that....

...they agreed to send a replacement. Which I would receive the next time I placed an order.. That was rather disappointing.

... seems to be the big division between many companies' customer service. Boiled down, the fundamental difference is often simply that:

-Some make it right.
-Others wait for you to make another order before making it right.

One method benefits the customer, one benefits the dealer.  I'd rather support the company that doesn't dump the costs of their own mistakes back on their customers.