A&A Sarmatian Horse Archers

[WorkShy]

Hi

I'm trying to expand my unit of late 5th/early 6th century armoured horse archers. I've bought all the Footsore and Aventine Byzantine Armoured Horse Archers and I'm trying not to dupe too many figures. 

As part of their 4th century Imperial Rome packs, A&A have two set of "Sarmatian Horse Archers" (https://www.aandaminiatures.co.uk/view_product/?p=27). I'm just wondering if anyone has experience of these sets (how they size vs. Footsore and Aventine cavalry etc) since the photos on the website are very poor. 

Thanks.

[SJWi]

Workshy,  I don't have this particular A&A range but do have an army of their 3rd century figures. I've just checked them against some of the Aventine and Footsore models I have. Sizewise they match very well vs the Aventine light cavalry, a tad smaller than Footsore, albeit the Footsore do seem to be on large-ish horses for light cavalry!   I   will be honest and say they are cruder than both Aventine and Footsore, being sculpts dating back to I guess the 1990s.  I think the A&A ranges were the early work of Adam who now sculpts for Aventine.

I still buy from A&A as some of their ranges are pretty unique ( anyone else do Palmyrans or  late 3rd century Romans), and they paint up well. Their current "August offer"  of buy 4 packs get one free also makes them comparatively cheap.

If you want more, PM me your e-mail address and I can send you some comparison photos.       

[peachy rex]

The riders are a very good match with Aventine Byzantines (I have both), though they lack archery equipment (quiver and bow-case) - presumably because they are two part figs using the same lower half as the Sarmatian lancers. That's easy to fix, just irritating if you're caught by surprise.

However, the A&A Roman horses are not compatible with Aventine's dark ages horses. At all.

[WorkShy]

.... I   will be honest and say they are cruder than both Aventine and Footsore, being sculpts dating back to I guess the 1990s.  I think the A&A ranges were the early work of Adam who now sculpts for Aventine ...

Thanks. Yes they seem more basic that Aventine or Footsore but that isn't necessarily a big problem.

The riders are a very good match with Aventine Byzantines (I have both), though they lack archery equipment (quiver and bow-case) - presumably because they are two part figs using the same lower half as the Sarmatian lancers. That's easy to fix, just irritating if you're caught by surprise.

However, the A&A Roman horses are not compatible with Aventine's dark ages horses. At all.

Thanks. I did wonder about quiver and bowcase since couldn't see them in their small photos. I've got plenty of extra quivers lying around but bit short on the bowcases since used a few on the Footsore minis that also lack them.

The horses are something I am concerned about. I don't really like the look of them and based on a few photos on their website they do look rather different in build. Would the riders fit on Aventine or Footsore horses?  I have some spares of each.

Bottomline is I'm currently using a few plastic cavalry made up from bits and pieces to make up the numbers. GB Late Roman Heavy Cav with heads from Wargames Atlantic and bows/quivers from GB Late Roman Light Cav. As you can see below the result is not impressive. So the bar is quite low!

[peachy rex]

Don't know about Footsore, but they'd be fine on Aventine horses.

[pallard]

Hi
I happen to have a complete third century Roman force as well and preparing to paint a Justinian one. I have lots of A and A also in my Sassanian and Palmyrenian forces. The Sarmatians are crude but I like them as they are, and will mix them with the same miniatures mentioned. I think they have character. Think more of Sarmatizing Goths than real second century Roxolani. Or Alan nobles. They can receive bows therefore or not. They are ideal in my opinion for the Sarmatian cavalry sent to Britain and their descendants.

[WorkShy]

Hi
I happen to have a complete third century Roman force as well and preparing to paint a Justinian one. I have lots of A and A also in my Sassanian and Palmyrenian forces. The Sarmatians are crude but I like them as they are, and will mix them with the same miniatures mentioned. I think they have character. Think more of Sarmatizing Goths than real second century Roxolani. Or Alan nobles. They can receive bows therefore or not. They are ideal in my opinion for the Sarmatian cavalry sent to Britain and their descendants.

I think you are correct. More "late antiquity armoured horse archers" than "Sarmatian ... " so will probably fit into a number of possible armies. I think the answer for me is just to buy 6 of them and see what they are like.

[Ten Fingered Jack]

I like the figs but the ornate greaves put me off.

[WorkShy]

I like the figs but the ornate greaves put me off.

I don't mind a bit of modding. If I don't like them a bit of filing + some greenstuff might do the trick. I'm also not sure about the shoulders.

I do wonder if some of these companies actually want to sell their minis. A&A really isn't marketing their products very well with small, grainy, black and white photos. At least A&A has a photo. I was looking at Westwind and their Romano-British Armoured Spearmen. Despite being out for well over a decade, the minis don't seem to have ever been graced with a photo on their website.

[cadbren]

I don't mind a bit of modding. If I don't like them a bit of filing + some greenstuff might do the trick. I'm also not sure about the shoulders.

I do wonder if some of these companies actually want to sell their minis. A&A really isn't marketing their products very well with small, grainy, black and white photos. At least A&A has a photo. I was looking at Westwind and their Romano-British Armoured Spearmen. Despite being out for well over a decade, the minis don't seem to have ever been graced with a photo on their website.

Some only have lists with no images. One manufacturer I've seen has had the wrong image (slingers instead of heavy cavalry) up for years while many of their products have no images at all. Many of the images that do exist are small, possibly scanned from an old catalogue suggesting they don't do the casting themselves. This must be common because I can't understand why certain product would ever be out of stock for a manufacturer. If it's an issue of molds being worn out then remove the product from the site.

[pallard]

The ornate roman greaves are problematic in a way but let's consider this problem more closely. Artefacts did travel a lot in the late Antiquity. For instance the helmet with a face mask so associated with pre-Viking Vendel and Anglo-saxon cultures was probably issued first among the south-west ( Alemanic) region late in the second and early in the third century, so says today's archeology. This was probably in imitation of Roman cavalry games' equipment. It appears that greaves were very prominent in the Roman third century army. So the Sarmatian auxiliaries, allies or foes alike would certainly pay for them eagerly. If you have practiced any contact sport you will understand easily why horsemen would do so first: the shin was one of the most exposed body parts against foot and a shin injury is very painful and prevents good horsemanship! The Romans did use Sarmatian ( helmets, kontos, composit bows)and then Germanic ( swords, seax, franciscae) equipment too. This was probably a huge part official-part underground traffic all along the Rhine and Danube and along the main waterways towards Scandinavia and the Crimea. So maybe we should quit our nice dream of  uniformed parading legionaries and clean-shaven Barbarian auxiliaries and accept a very mixed-up reality instead.