Problems with Rustins matt varnish

[jawd500]

Looking for some help and insights here.

I've been using Rustins polyurethane matt varnish to give a good protective coat to my figures. I did a batch a few days ago, but since applying it to the minis they've had a lingering chemical odour that isn't going away. I've used this same pot on other minis and they've been fine.

Does anyone have any insights into what's going on here? More importantly, is there any way I get rid of the smell?

Cheers!

[OSHIROmodels]

What's the material of the figures and have you changed primer?

[Major_Gilbear]

Also, how long have you had the can, and did you stir/mix it thoroughly before use?

[Radar]

Probably not very healthy or safe, but this will get rid of the smell. Position a few candles centrally on a worktop, positioning the figures around the candles. (Don't worry I am not suggesting a black mass to rid the figures of the smell of Satan.) Now is probably a good time to open a window a little. Light the candles. Leave them lit for about half an hour. Keep checking in on them just to ensure that you are not going to burn the house down. You'll notice that the smell gets worse. Then it goes completely (after a few hours). If you are really unlucky you might have to repeat the process.

If you have a gas cooker, you can eliminate the candles by making a bacon butty under the grill. Does the same thing and you also get a bacon butty.

[OSHIROmodels]

If you have a gas cooker, you can eliminate the candles by making a bacon butty under the grill. Does the same thing and you also get a bacon butty.

 

[jawd500]

What's the material of the figures and have you changed primer?

Some metal and some plastic. I've used this same pot on some models before, and it hasn't been a problem. I can't think it's the primer either, as some are Vallejo and some are Army Painter, and they both smell regardless. I've also varnished minis with the same pot using the same Vallejo primer, and it wasn't a problem then either.

[jawd500]

Also, how long have you had the can, and did you stir/mix it thoroughly before use?

A couple of months now. I gave it a good shake, yeah, but possibly not good enough. It's a matt varnish but it came out satin, which indicates it wasn't shaken up enough. If that's the answer, any solutions?

[jawd500]

Probably not very healthy or safe, but this will get rid of the smell. Position a few candles centrally on a worktop, positioning the figures around the candles. (Don't worry I am not suggesting a black mass to rid the figures of the smell of Satan.) Now is probably a good time to open a window a little. Light the candles. Leave them lit for about half an hour. Keep checking in on them just to ensure that you are not going to burn the house down. You'll notice that the smell gets worse. Then it goes completely (after a few hours). If you are really unlikely you might have to repeat the process.

If you have a gas cooker, you can eliminate the candles by making a bacon butty under the grill. Does the same thing and you also get a bacon butty.

I'll give it a go, though how exactly does this work? I'm guessing the idea is that the candle draws the air around it, taking the fumes off the models? Either that or this is just a leg-pull I've fallen for .

[Major_Gilbear]

A couple of months now. I gave it a good shake, yeah, but possibly not good enough. It's a matt varnish but it came out satin, which indicates it wasn't shaken up enough. If that's the answer, any solutions?

Shaking may not be enough; you should probably be thoroughly stirring it for a good five minutes until you can't feel any sludge settled at the bottom of the can. If the matting agent has at least partially settled out and wasn't dislodged by your shaking, then there's a fair chance that the shake you gave the tin wasn't enough to thoroughly remix the rest of it either. You need to do this each time by the way, even if the tin is new.

Depending on how big the tin is, it might also be worth decanting some/all into glass jars - this way you can see if it's settled out, and can check on how well your stirring/shaking is going. I also like doing this because it prevents too many dry bits of varnish falling back from the tin's rim into the rest of the varnish each time you open it.

As for the smell on the finished models... They probably need to be set somewhere that's warm and also well ventilated for a couple of weeks until the smell has gone. I have no idea whether the candle suggestion is a joke or if it works, but I've never heard of this as a solution before! 

The only other thing I can think of, is of the material of your figures is a softer plastic (like Reaper Bones or a PVC), or a resin. In these instances, the materials can sometimes react poorly with spray primers and/or varnishes. Normally if this is the case, the models remain or become tacky to touch, but in a few isolated cases I have heard that they can smell pungently of chemicals too/instead - there's usually no solution in these instances unfortunately. If this is not your situation, then I'm afraid I don't have any more ideas... 

[Radar]

I'll give it a go, though how exactly does this work? I'm guessing the idea is that the candle draws the air around it, taking the fumes off the models? Either that or this is just a leg-pull I've fallen for .

No idea. Didn't listen in science at school. I do know that if I ever paint house things, or use Danish oil etc if I put the cooker on it really brings the smell out (I have over sensitive olfactory nerves). Smell gets worse almost immediately, then goes much quicker.

The candle thing was just scaling it down. No idea if it works. Personally I'd go the bacon butty/cheese on toast route.

[Luigi]

Position a few candles centrally on a worktop, positioning the figures around the candles. (Don't worry I am not suggesting a black mass to rid the figures of the smell of Satan.

The fact that tis is NOT a black mass is the most disappointing part

[jawd500]

The fact that tis is NOT a black mass is the most disappointing part

Indeed!

[jawd500]

Shaking may not be enough; you should probably be thoroughly stirring it for a good five minutes until you can't feel any sludge settled at the bottom of the can. If the matting agent has at least partially settled out and wasn't dislodged by your shaking, then there's a fair chance that the shake you gave the tin wasn't enough to thoroughly remix the rest of it either. You need to do this each time by the way, even if the tin is new.

Depending on how big the tin is, it might also be worth decanting some/all into glass jars - this way you can see if it's settled out, and can check on how well your stirring/shaking is going. I also like doing this because it prevents too many dry bits of varnish falling back from the tin's rim into the rest of the varnish each time you open it.

As for the smell on the finished models... They probably need to be set somewhere that's warm and also well ventilated for a couple of weeks until the smell has gone. I have no idea whether the candle suggestion is a joke or if it works, but I've never heard of this as a solution before! 

The only other thing I can think of, is of the material of your figures is a softer plastic (like Reaper Bones or a PVC), or a resin. In these instances, the materials can sometimes react poorly with spray primers and/or varnishes. Normally if this is the case, the models remain or become tacky to touch, but in a few isolated cases I have heard that they can smell pungently of chemicals too/instead - there's usually no solution in these instances unfortunately. If this is not your situation, then I'm afraid I don't have any more ideas... 

Update for anyone reading this thread: it's been two weeks now and the odour still hasn't disappeared, despite being in a warm and well ventilated room. What caused the varnish to do this remains a mystery, except that maybe the varnish has just gone 'off' in some nonspecific manner.

OSHIROmodels thanks for the suggestions. I'll take your suggestion on the glass bottle front. In previous years I used a different tin of Rustins poly matt varnish and had perfect results - a hard protective coat, no odour and a truly matt finish. For whatever reason I've never been able to replicate the effects. Possibly being able to see how much has settled may at least help with getting a properly matt finish.


At the moment my only other suggestion for those considering varnishing their miniatures is not to unless you have to! Most paint will stick on plastics okay, although chipping on metal minis is pain. Acrylic brush-on varnishes are your best bet. If you want a truly matt finish AK interactive has been very good for me - just make sure you shake it properly and don't apply it too thick. Sometimes when using brush-on varnishes the particulate in the medium (which gives it its matt finish by causing light to disperse more evenly across a surface) can pool in the recesses and give you this really annoying cloudy look.

If anyone has any further suggestions, please let me know! There are 80-odd minis in the batch I painted, and it'd be a real bugger to know they'd forever be doomed to let off a faint chemical stink.

[jawd500]

Update for anyone still reading this. It's been somewhere between a month and six weeks now, and alas, still no change. I tried burying the minis in baking powder and leaving them for a few days, in the hope that the powder would absorb the smell. No success there either. I am resigned to the fact that those minis will forever let off a chemical smell. I'm also a little worried, given that polyurethane varnish fumes are toxic.

[Major_Gilbear]

At this point, it sounds like a bad or spoiled batch of varnish. No idea why that would be unfortunately. 

Could you try over-varnishing them with something else, to "seal in" the smell?