Too many rule sets!

[Norm]

The blog has been updated with a discussion that basically centres upon the problem of too many rulesets and getting confused between them, but of course then wanders off on a more uncertain ramble - just a coffee read if you are looking for a five minute diversion. LINK


https://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2023/08/putting-rules-napoleonic-to-test.html

[Old Contemptable]

Our group has the same issue. We play so many different rules sets that we occasionally mix them up. Some of the club will play different rules for the same conflict. I am not going to do that any longer. I have one set of ACW rules and I am sticking to them.  They were for a time playing a different set of Ancients skirmish rules every month. I am no longer taking on any new rules. My memory is all used up.

[Harry Faversham]

We used 'Operation Warboard' by Gavin Lyle for WW2, best part of 40 years, they worked for the type of game we enjoyed. Them days are sadly, over.
Now I'm flirting with three sets of WW2 rules, CandC, Rapid Fire, and FUBAR yet still can't choose one. I'm battling solo these days, and get drawn to Neil Thomas' OHW rules more and more, for all periods.
 

[armchairgeneral]

This is one reason why I like the Rampant rules as they are fairly simple to pick up and the basic system in used from Ancients through to Sci-Fi.

I suppose if you like them, this is also an argument for using Warlord Games Hail Caesar, Pike and Shotte and Black Powder as they also all work on similar principles.

[fred]

There is huge value to sticking to rules you know and enjoy.

The problem comes with some sets is that certain situations occur that stop the rules being enjoyable - and these are often beyond a simple house rule to fix.

The shear breadth of rules out there suggest that as gamers we are always trying to find a set that works better for us than the last one. Unfortunately it seems we each have a different (and probably poorly known / defined) definition of what works for us.

I have found with attempting to write rules for our group, that what players can say they want, and what they actually do and play is rather different!

[Ray Rivers]

Seems like there has always been too many rule sets out there. You have the two extremes which intensely cover every little thing that can happen (I call these Grognard rules) to those that are quite simple and quick to play (Beer and Pretzel rules), and everything in-between.

I was once in a group that played Beer and Pretzel rules for ACW, where great fun was had and a large game could be finished in a couple hours, while when we played Napoleonic's we used Grognard rules and never finished a single game.

I tend toward the Beer and Pretzel rules.

Bye the bye, I noticed you are playing Napoleonic's with Warlord's Epic minis. A lot of painting required to pull that off and yours look quite nice. How do you like them?

[Norm]

Hi Ray, I can’t make my mind up.

I have put them on 55mm wide MDF instead of the supplied 60mm, to reduce the effect of that gap between bases.

The is a lot of detail on them, which I feel compelled to paint, so they seem to be taking a while, but when they go onto the table, the 3 foot rule kicks in and that detail mostly goes, so I could do with finding a more impressionist style for speed.

They do look nice on the table as they have a good relationship with the terrain and give that birds eye view effect.

They are also incredibly light and robust, which I like.

I do like the individual look of a 28mm, but the sensible part of me says my Epic suit my playing space better.

[Ray Rivers]

Very interesting reply, Norm. Sorry if I am derailing the thread.

I have started an Epic ACW project and pretty much everything you state concerning the Napoleonic's also comes into play with these miniatures as well. I won't dwell on the particulars, as this is not the place, but I will soon start a thread concerning my ACW project in which I hope to generate thoughts by folks such as yourself concerning the Warlord Epic miniatures.

As for ACW rules, I will be using a 27 page "Beer and Pretzels" rule set published in 1978 called "Rally 'Round the Flag."

[Norm]

I will look out for your topic.

[FifteensAway]

Two elements here in this thread near to my gaming heart: too many rules (check) and three foot rule (check).

The hobby as a whole has gone sort of nuts with so many rule sets.  I have winnowed my personal choices to essentially two: Rank and File by Crusader publishing for larger tactical style battles and Fistful of Lead by Wiley Games (including Bigger Battles) for anything that doesn't fit Rank and File.  Both rules are pretty simple yet 'tactical' or 'characterful' (when wanted) for FFOL.  Only needing to know those two sets is very freeing.  Of course, I don't consider myself a 'gamer' but a historical (mostly) miniatures player.  [A 'gamer' is that person who will play just about anything and is always looking for a 'new' game to play.  More power to them but that just seems exhausting to me.]. Those two sets of rules - I have a variety of others but most never got a try - covers from Stone Age to Star Wars for me, and lots of historical stops in the in between those.  And they both are easy to learn and can readily play to a conclusion in a reasonable time frame.  As to those 'grognard' rules?  I'd rather bang my head against a brick wall as a cause of the headache! 

On the 3' rule, when I decided to abandon trying to paint to any high standard (not that I was ever that good, but good enough I guess) for just 'good enough', my productivity went from maybe 200 figures in a good year to as many as 1500 figures in a year for several years running now.  An adequately painted figure in a game is 1,000% better than an unpainted figure languishing in the "lead" pile.  And shouldn't that be the 'tin-alloy' pile?

[SJWi]

I can certainly agree with both sentiments. As my eyesight deteriorates I've changed my painting style and speeded up considerable. I've also found that using Little Big Men's Studios' shield decals and banners helps a lot as the eye is drawn to them and not my painting. I use Simon Miller's "To the Strongest" for ancients and medieval, and PSC's "Battlegroup" for WW2. I was tempted into buying "Sword and Spear" at a show, and although they seemed quite good I realised "if it works why change it". My little gaming group's problem is our collective range of interests. As well as "core" ancients and WW2 we game WW2 naval and air war, Napoleonic ( land and sea), a smattering of Colonial ranging from French-Indian Wars through to Indian Mutiny, not forgetting ECW and SYW. Having a working knowledge of multiple rules has therefore become a grim inevitability         

[Moriarty]

My problem is remembering rules from previous editions of the set being played. Or, indeed remembering rules from previous editions of a set not being played . . .
Recently I’ve moved to a set from the 1950’s, incredibly simple, incredibly bloody, but a resolution is achieved in a couple of hours and I don’t have a recall problem :-)

[Redshank]

I have a book called "Donald Featherstone's Lost Tales", which includes a set of percentile-based rules for ACW, based on the principle that morale is what counts. 90% of the rules is 2 tables cross referencing each type of unit against each type on the enemy side. This gives you a % to throw in a firefight or melee (the 2 tables). Miss the throw means cross off a box of stamina (so you do need a unit roster). Lose all boxes = break and run.

I could go on but there isn't really much more to it. By the way, Bonnie Blue Flag is a much more recent ruleset that takes a similar approach.

Anyway the reason I mention this is because I am wondering if I ever really need any other rules. It just needs some prep work to set up the tables, which is quite fun anyway.

That said, I am an inveterate collector and reader of rules and enjoy trying out new sets as an activity in itself.

[olicana]

Probably one of the reasons we play Piquet style games in every period (pretty much). You get used to a format and style, you only need to remember the period specific stuff. Of course, it helps that the basic mechanisms for Piquet games make it the best rule set ever written (IMHO) - even if you always change the period stuff to a home rules version.