White Russians 1918

[sir_shvantselot]

Crikey, some don’t even have shoes.

I’ve got through about a third of Beavor’s fantastic book, but it all seems so utterly gruesome. He sets out at the beginning how peasant rural Russia was already so very superstitious, poor and violent as some kind of explanation. And I know all Civil Wars are insane, but in particular, the Whites seem to turn up in villages and massacre everyone, including Jews. No strategy. Just vengeance. For what is not clear. I guess the Reds were also very violent, but as stated above, they seem to have been more organised and had a strategy. The Western interventions seem to have struggled with having nothing to work with. Not a case of why are they’re Vietnamese better than our Vietnamese. More why are our Russians such an insane uncontrollable murderous circus; why are their Russians so murderously strategic. Maybe one day I’ll get some Copplestone miniatures. Sad the Empress ones seem so much more slender?

[cuprum]

Dmitry, when you work with photographs, you need to be extremely careful about their attribution. Otherwise, they can easily mislead you.

In the first photo, General Mai-Maevsky inspects the 2nd Kornilov Shock Regiment in Rostov in July 1919. And now we read the memories of eyewitnesses about this event:

“On July 19, 1919, Captain Pashkevich reported to the commander of the Volunteer Army, General May-Maevsky, that the regiment was ready: An order followed to present the regiment for inspection to the army commander. By the appointed day, almost all of Rostov had gathered to watch the inspection of the young regiment by the army commander. The regiment lined up in a reserve column and made an impressive impression with its formidable appearance, the 1st and 2nd battalions were dressed in English uniforms with canvas boots, and the 3rd - in bag uniforms (that is, sewn from flour bags), all three were without overcoats. The officer's consolidated company - in overcoats, but without emblems, they were given to them only after the first battles."

From the book: Levitov M.N. “KORNILOV PEOPLE IN THE BATTLES IN THE SUMMER-AUTUMN OF 1919”

The year is 1919 and the soldier’s uniform is British. Moreover, the regiment received this uniform literally a few days before the parade. No wonder she looks perfect.

You can be sure that Kolchak’s army at the parades looked no worse than Denikin’s. And those photos showing ragged soldiers show an army that spent several months in battles and campaigns, with disgusting supplies (it was disgusting for everyone - both the Reds and the Whites). Naturally, the uniform turned into rags, the soldiers were forced to solve the problem to the best of their strength and capabilities (rob the population and prisoners, improvise clothes from any suitable materials). After the military unit is withdrawn to the rear, it will most likely again be equipped with a real uniform, which will again become unusable after a few months in battle. This happened in the south of Russia, it also happened in Siberia. This was true everywhere.

The first two photos of Kolchakites were taken on October 23, 1919 by an American correspondent. This is presumably the Izhevsk regiment, which went through a long route of retreat.

The last photo shows red ones. This is the 12th Infantry Regiment of the People's Revolutionary Army of the Far Eastern Republic leaving the front for rest. 1921




This is also Kolchak’s army. Around the same time that your photos were taken. The photo shows the 3rd Barnaul Jaeger Regiment at the parade in 1919. After a few months of fighting, they will turn into the same ragamuffins as in your photo.

[Mark Plant]

Just a note on bare feet. That means only that the weather is nice. If you grow up in a culture where shoes are not worn unless they need to be, as I did, then you think nothing of going without shoes in summer. They're just uncomfortable. I know people who go barefoot in winter, by choice.

Peasants might also prefer bast as more comfortable than shoes in not quite the right size.

There are plenty of examples of RCW soldiers being given new uniforms, only to send them home (or sell them) then keep on going in their ragged old ones. Why waste good clothes?

[carlos marighela]

Vague echoes of Xan Smiley's famous description of the Soviet Union, albeit without the rockets. 

[Khmorg]

So what did ordinary Russians who fought for the Whites look like in everyday life??

I think it's like in these photos

If you have more photos, please give me these photos

I really like to sculpt historically accurate warriors

[cuprum]

Dmitry, the state of the army uniform during a campaign is a process. Moreover, in those conditions of extreme scarcity of resources on the part of most parties to the conflict.
As an example, one military unit: at first it is a detachment of volunteers, dressed in whatever they can - a mixture of military and civilian costumes; the detachment is then incorporated into the army and supplied with uniform uniforms; then the detachment participates in hostilities, the uniform wears out, people are forced to engage in “self-supply”, reinforcements are poured into the regiment (in their own uniform, quite possibly different from that of the unit being described). In general, the uniform again comes to complete anarchy in appearance and the terrible state of clothing. Then the unit is taken to rest, it is again dressed in a new uniform and it again has a proper appearance.
And there can be many such cycles. In the photo you see only an episode from this process. The same people can be dressed perfectly, and later look like absolute ragamuffins. Both will be true, but for different time periods.

So if you want to create a specific image, you must decide what kind of military unit it is, at what point in its existence. And collect relevant historical material to create an image of this part.

You can create the image of a military unit that has been participating in battles for a long time (and it won’t even matter whether they are red or white, the differences will be minimal). Here you don’t need a lot of photos - the ones you provided earlier are enough. By the way, Capplestone already has such figures. On the gaming table, such figures may well represent veterans.

But in my opinion, it is more interesting to create military units that have uniforms in good condition, and at the same time have some unique differences. During the Civil War there were a huge number of such military units. Still, we make figures not for historical dioramas, but for games, and on the gaming table they should look beautiful, and at the same time carry some kind of educational function (at least about the appearance of military units).

[Ignatieff]

I haven’t read Beaver, and I can’t say anything about his book, but the reason for the massacre lies in the fact that problems and conflicts in Russian society, and with them hatred, have been accumulating for centuries. And peasant society (Russia at that time was overwhelmingly an agrarian country) was extremely patriarchal; grievances in families were remembered for centuries. Serfdom alone “heated the cauldron of hatred” for centuries (not counting thousands of other, big and small problems)... And the time came when this cauldron exploded. And everyone began to settle scores with everyone, increasing the number of those offended and drawing more and more people into the whirlpool of violence.
What is good about democracy is that it is a valve for releasing pressure in the “boiler”. Otherwise...
The Bolsheviks, in my opinion, turned out to be the only force that was able to tame the raging elements, and even offer an attractive project for the future. The Whites did not offer anything, postponing the decision until later, after the end of the war (and could not offer it, since they presented projects that were completely alternative to each other, and were united solely by the fight against a common enemy).

Dima, the figures are good, but... There are still a lot of untapped armies and unique units for this period of history... Why make new figures that repeat the same theme over and over again? This condemns the manufacturer to low demand in advance.
With this banner, the figures are perfect for the army of Admiral Kolchak. The Troitsky Regiment was created and fought on the Eastern Front.

Very wise words Cuprum.  Thank you

[Khmorg]

I think that my project will be within the framework of the defense of Tsaritsyn in 1918.
I'll look for photos and information about the uniform.

[FramFramson]

Dmitry, the state of the army uniform during a campaign is a process. Moreover, in those conditions of extreme scarcity of resources on the part of most parties to the conflict.
As an example, one military unit: at first it is a detachment of volunteers, dressed in whatever they can - a mixture of military and civilian costumes; the detachment is then incorporated into the army and supplied with uniform uniforms; then the detachment participates in hostilities, the uniform wears out, people are forced to engage in “self-supply”, reinforcements are poured into the regiment (in their own uniform, quite possibly different from that of the unit being described). In general, the uniform again comes to complete anarchy in appearance and the terrible state of clothing. Then the unit is taken to rest, it is again dressed in a new uniform and it again has a proper appearance.
And there can be many such cycles. In the photo you see only an episode from this process. The same people can be dressed perfectly, and later look like absolute ragamuffins. Both will be true, but for different time periods.

So if you want to create a specific image, you must decide what kind of military unit it is, at what point in its existence. And collect relevant historical material to create an image of this part.

You can create the image of a military unit that has been participating in battles for a long time (and it won’t even matter whether they are red or white, the differences will be minimal). Here you don’t need a lot of photos - the ones you provided earlier are enough. By the way, Capplestone already has such figures. On the gaming table, such figures may well represent veterans.

But in my opinion, it is more interesting to create military units that have uniforms in good condition, and at the same time have some unique differences. During the Civil War there were a huge number of such military units. Still, we make figures not for historical dioramas, but for games, and on the gaming table they should look beautiful, and at the same time carry some kind of educational function (at least about the appearance of military units).

Beautiful uniforms, eh? I see Cuprum knows very well the old saying: "The ladies love a man in uniform". 

[Rogerc]

Really nice figures, as Cuprum says there are still gaps but first of all I guess you are doing this for yourself, anythign commercial comes later? For me one of the gaps is the Japanese for this period.

[FramFramson]

Really nice figures, as Cuprum says there are still gaps but first of all I guess you are doing this for yourself, anythign commercial comes later? For me one of the gaps is the Japanese for this period.

Yes, still no one with a really decent range of interwar Japanese, only the smallest handful of figures here or there.

[Von Stroheim]

The Japanese were going to be done by wargames Atlantic - at least earlier period - but they seem to have disappeared from their release schedule.

[carlos marighela]

The images of the Japanese that WA produced seemed unsuitable as interwar IJA, they were clearly pitched at the RJW and the uniforms had changed by WW1.

WA are not particularly good when it comes to research and historical accuracy anyway. Nice enough figures though.

[Khmorg]

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[Rogerc]

Lovely stuff.