Downscaling my wargames periods from 28 to 15mm

[FifteensAway]

As a long time dedicated 15 mm gamer (with only two of over 20 periods in 10 mm - SYW bought mostly painted and Vietnam), I wholly endorse moving to 15 mm.

First point, painting can be much faster since 'good enough' works far better in 15 mm than in 28 mm.  Yes, you can do Steve Dean quality painting in 15 mm if you want to and have that level of skill, but it isn't necessary to enjoy the game.  I have, literally, for several years running now, painted 1,000+ figures per year.

Second point, it is much easier to get - and paint - both (or all) sides in 15 mm both from a cost stand point and painting effort.

Third point, I disagree on the storage of figures, you will save a lot of room storing 15 mm over 28 mm (I have a small bit of 28 mm stored from a late friend's collection and I could store about four times as many 15 mm figures in the same space).  Basing style might make a difference, of course.

I do concur about not selling a painted collection you enjoy.  I also have never got my head around doing the same period in more than one scale - just seems wasted effort.

I'm 66 and certainly have some degradation in my eyesight but I can still paint 15 mm figures with no problem - just add more light to painting area and, when necessary (only rarely) use magnification.  Of course, I'm fine with 'good enough' since I'm in it for the frequent enjoyable game, not the fine looking but rarely used display case figures (not that I don't envy those figures!).

As to the quality of figures, you can get spectacularly high quality figures in 15/18 mm these days.  Maybe the one 'off' bit is oversize weapons like spears and swords but I live with that for the durability of the figure.  My regular reference is Blue Moon's Sherlock Holmes figure - as good a figure as I've ever seen in any scale (in the Horror Range, London folk if memory serves).

Very few periods you cannot find in 15 mm anymore - pretty well covered.  Of course, like every scale, there are going to be things you cannot find, though some help through the 3D printing phenomena. 

Last, if you go to 15 mm for Darkest Africa - add Irregular Miniatures Colonial range to your go to along with the Blue Moon figures - they mix well.  And check out their Animal range for appropriate critters.  And Highlanders Studios for African Cape buffalo - or PM if you are in US, I have extras (edit: just checked and see you are in NZ).  To see what I've done go here: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=143706.0. Scroll down for the photos.  Most of the people are either Blue Moon or Irregular.  Some of the porters are from Khurasan historical West Sudan range.  And, of course, you don't have to go as crazy on numbers as I did.  Sorry photos aren't better but these are just teaser photos for now.

You cannot go wrong with replacing a portion of your collection with 15 mm figures - and you can go very right by doing so.

There is one serious hazard with 15 mm (which you probably know from 6 mm), it is FAR too easy to get too many figures!  Believe me, I know all too well! 

Hope that helps.

[6mmfan]

Thanks for the well argued response FifteensAway, I agree with your points. I do tend to aim for a high painting standard (by my standards) because I don't want to look at figures I painted on the table and think I did I average job, which is probably some sort of OCD.

That's lots of great info for Colonials which will come in handy when I make the switch. That's an impressive collection of figures and animals and it would look great on the table!

I keep forgetting about Irregular who have a lot of hidden gems across their ranges, usually disguised by some terrible painting.

I already started increasing my 15mm last year with more SYW, new Sudan Colonials, new Pony Wars and Sci-fi and I'm enjoying how much quicker they are to finish (same as 6mm) compared to 28mm.

Since starting this thread I've gone through my 28mm unpainted and found quite a lot that can be used as 15mm fantasy including creatures, snotlings and GW Goblintown goblins (which should make great 15mm trolls).

[FifteensAway]

Glad to have offered insight. 

On the skirmish front, I am in the process (finally!) of working on my Three Musketeers setup and all will be based on round sheet steel bases - except for the coaches on 1"x4" sheet metal bases - 3/4" round for foot, 1" round for mounted and dead, dead horses will be unbased.  Most of the figures are from Bluemoon, both their Musketeer range with some additions from their ECW range (more civilians), with some other figures from Khurasan which are a tad smaller but workable for me.  And, of course, me being me, my "skirmish" setup will have around 480 figures but that counts living and dead people and horses plus the mounted men and the two coaches.  Casualty figures were mostly from Donnington Miniatures.  The main fighting forces is around 90-110 figures, the rest are 'window dressing' more or less.  Only multi-figure base will be a set of two men arm in arm as cast, either one drunk or wounded; all the rest will be individually based.  My inspiration comes from the Three Musketeers version with Tim Curry as Cardinal Richelieu - it should be fun.  Dumas' - at least the expurgated versions which are so much easier to read than the encylopedic versions - has sex and violence on every page, one, the other, or both.

So far, all bases undersides primed (I don't like bare metal) and all figures washed.  Now just flash and file and glue to prepared bases and when dry and weather permits (raining here) prime them.

So, yeah, 15 mm can be just fine for skirmish gaming - and a lot less expensive for buildings, I am using, mostly, my Pirate buildings which should work okay and most of them are already painted which is a big plus.

Forged in Battle are great - if I were to ever add Romans (perish the thought of adding anything new!!!!), absolutely they would be my go to, fighters, civilians, and architecture one stop shop - and opponents, too.

May I ask what figures you are using for your Old West?  I have figures from pretty much every Old West/Plains War range available in 15 mm.  While some are a good deal smaller than others, it still works.  One caution though, the Irregular Old West are bigger than anyone else's ranges by quite a bit.  The Hovels range is easily the smallest, smaller even than Peter Pig.  And if you haven't discovered them yet, be sure and look at CP Models small range but beautiful Old West figures.  My collection is Very Seriously OVER THE TOP - at least 100 wagons.  No, that is not a typo!  Heck, even some of it is painted.

It wasn't Covid for me, it was getting ready to retire and over-stocking my hobby 'back log'.  Sometimes enthusiasm runs a bit too far ahead of us, I think mine went on a full-on Olympic caliber sprint. 

[Pattus Magnus]

Another advantage of 15mm for skirmish games is that if you use the move and shooting distances for 28mm figures, it reduces the difference between table scale and figure scale. The 15mm figures are still far over-sized compared to nominal table scale in most games, but it looks closer. I find that even using 1:72 plastic figures with 28mm move and shooting distances looks less jarring.

[6mmfan]

May I ask what figures you are using for your Old West?  I have figures from pretty much every Old West/Plains War range available in 15 mm.  While some are a good deal smaller than others, it still works.  One caution though, the Irregular Old West are bigger than anyone else's ranges by quite a bit.  The Hovels range is easily the smallest, smaller even than Peter Pig.  And if you haven't discovered them yet, be sure and look at CP Models small range but beautiful Old West figures.  My collection is Very Seriously OVER THE TOP - at least 100 wagons.  No, that is not a typo!  Heck, even some of it is painted.

My Plains wars figures are all QRF 15mm. I found a shop in NZ with old stock going for about 1/2 price so I went a bit crazy (just under 250 figures, cavalry, wagons etc)! I could use them for Wild West but I have a lot of 28mm already and lots of scenery.

Another advantage of 15mm for me is that generally postage to NZ is cheaper for 15mm than 28mm figures, which has become much more expensive following Covid.

[6mmfan]

Another advantage of 15mm for skirmish games is that if you use the move and shooting distances for 28mm figures, it reduces the difference between table scale and figure scale. The 15mm figures are still far over-sized compared to nominal table scale in most games, but it looks closer. I find that even using 1:72 plastic figures with 28mm move and shooting distances looks less jarring.

Agreed, having a more realistic ground scale is another benefit of the scale (and smaller scale in general).

[FifteensAway]

I guess I confuse myself because I take Pony Wars and Old West and end up with Pony West! 

QRF is a good range - one of the three "complete" 15 mm ranges, the other two being Bluemoon and Peter Pig.  For Bluemoon there are also the War Paint and Uprising in Mexico ranges to add more, the latter for Mexican civilians and Angry Civilians (?) at least.

Long before that movie I have no interest in seeing (just sounds boring) sort of stole my title, I called my ultimate gaming experience as planned for the period:

The Whole Wilder West, All At Once (I don't want my game to be thought of in association with that movie so I guess I need a new name)

My game would be a cavalry battle on one end and then pretty much the gamut of Old West games running - bank robberies, cattle rustling, train robbery, stage robbery, range war, sheep folk against cow folk, etc. all in the same massive game to include even more cavalry saving the day (or not) somewhere in the mix with a good dose of humor with F Troop making an appearance!

For Pony Wars, Rosebud makes the most balanced large battle to put onto the table - in my opinion.

Sorry if I've derailed your OP.  A bit off the track I fear.

[6mmfan]

I guess I confuse myself because I take Pony Wars and Old West and end up with Pony West! 

QRF is a good range - one of the three "complete" 15 mm ranges, the other two being Bluemoon and Peter Pig.  For Bluemoon there are also the War Paint and Uprising in Mexico ranges to add more, the latter for Mexican civilians and Angry Civilians (?) at least.

Long before that movie I have no interest in seeing (just sounds boring) sort of stole my title, I called my ultimate gaming experience as planned for the period:

The Whole Wilder West, All At Once (I don't want my game to be thought of in association with that movie so I guess I need a new name)

My game would be a cavalry battle on one end and then pretty much the gamut of Old West games running - bank robberies, cattle rustling, train robbery, stage robbery, range war, sheep folk against cow folk, etc. all in the same massive game to include even more cavalry saving the day (or not) somewhere in the mix with a good dose of humor with F Troop making an appearance!

For Pony Wars, Rosebud makes the most balanced large battle to put onto the table - in my opinion.

Sorry if I've derailed your OP.  A bit off the track I fear.

No problem! Yeah there is a bit of overlap with the Wild West and Pony Wars. Who knows I might expand my Pony wars in the Wild West in the future, but its unlikely i'll sell my 28mm Wild west as there is a lot of sentimental value with them. I'm looking at The Men who would be Kings for Pony wars and there is some great mods written for the period on the Facebook page.

Also thanks for the advice on bases. I was thinking of around 20mm (3/4")  for 15mm figures so i will need to find a local supplier for cheap washers. Another method I have experimented with is 3D printing bases with a recess for the figure base, which hides the figure base lip. It does make the base thick (another pet peeve of mine) if i magnetise it, so I might tweak the design a bit.

I've been going through my 28mm fantasy and found quite a few figures I can use for 15mm fantasy including GW Goblintown goblins as 15mm Trolls and some 28mm Red Box game goblins which are the same size as 15mm figures (some of the weapons and shields are too big). And GW plastic rats from their Skaven plague monks.

[FifteensAway]

Before you go with washers - which don't seem to be cheap at all here in the US - check the internet for suppliers of steel discs to see if you have a nearby enough supplier to NZ to not pay excessive shipping.  Also, the discs can be got much thinner than washers - and I like thin bases.  I understand the thick bases but they destroy the visual effect in a game for me.

[Frostie]

I game exclusively in 15/10 and 6mm anything bigger does not appeal to me for a few reasons, cost, space and I like very big armies

I do use the odd bigger figure in my 15mm fanatsy armies for giants, monsters etc

I just feel that the smaller scales offer a more 'realistic' size of battle and the mass effect on the table is awesome.

[Skipper]

I too have been slowly moving to 15mm.  I made a promise to myself that once I make an equivelant unit in 15mm that is painted,  I'll get rid of the 28mm version.  This has been harder to do than to say as there is definitely a sentimental attachment to those older 28s.  The following are my reasons:

-Storage: 28mm take up too much space storing,  especially terrain. Its not really the base size as much as it is the height.
-Table Space:  I'll also tend to use slightly smaller battlefields, but not always as sometimes the larger field looks better to the 15mm scale.
-Battle Field Appearance: A 28mm town with 5-8 buildings looks small, but a city in 15mm just looks fabulous.  See picture below.
-Cost: I can generally get whole armies at 15mm for the price of a squad or platoon of 28s.
-Wife's prying eyes:  It is a lot easier to hide my purchases so I do not get too many questions.  Its not as much the cost with her,  but more the "Do you really need more tanks, orks, etc."  Now once they get boxed up and on the shelf waiting to be painted they barely get a glance.

I also love my 6mm for Big Battles (Ancients) and large battle WWII.  I would not trade those armies (ACW, Romans, Numidians, Parthians, Celts, Successors, French and Austrian Napoleonic's, and WWII) for anything.  But for smaller battles and skirmish, give me 15s.

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2 foot x 2 foot fantasy town

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About a 3x4 foot modern city or at least part of it.   

[dickiegranthum]

That looks fabulous!

I’m also scaling down, and am convinced that 12-15mm is the way forward.


I’ll probably start selling off my GW collection soon, painted or in boxes- there is too much to keep.

So far, I’ve moved to Warlord’s pretty nice ACW range in their 13.5mm (?) scale, and am convinced by their offerings that I can look at Naps and ECW in that scale.

For WW2, I absolutely am enthralled by the Victrix line, barring the limited selection etc. I’m sure by the time they get more done, I STILL won’t have painted all I have 

I’m also working on an N scale Godzilla game with Victrix models, various found Godzilla monsters, and mixing in the fabulous selection of available N scale Japanese train kits - and I’ll be including a real electric kit at some point. Amazon has a crazy amount of good N scale kits for this project.

Just so much on offer.

[syrinx0]

I have not sold off my painted 28mm armies but new projects are smaller scale. Same as dickiegranthum I have picked up Warlords Epic ACW as opposed to more 28mm. The Gettysburg set should keep my busy for awhile.

[macsen wledig]

or just get all the scales....

mwahahahahaha