Downscaling my wargames periods from 28 to 15mm

[6mmfan]

I've been looking a bit at 15mm more as a gaming scale lately and this has got me thinking about downscaling some of my collection from 28mm to 15mm. Smaller playing areas, storage space and time to complete armies is a big factor in my consideration of this, and there are a couple of very inspirational blogs - https://15mmthroughspaceandtime.blogspot.com/ along with https://warin15mm.com/.

It started when I brought Spacestation Zero and my original plan was to do it in 28mm as I have lots of figures already and some scenery. But I wanted to make a proper detailed board and also wanted make it small enough to be portable or use on a small playing area, but 28mm would be too big. So I brought some 15mm figures and now I'm working on a half scale version and have branched out to Space Weirdos, 5P and Planet 28.

This made me think about doing the same in other periods. I have hundreds of 28mm fantasy skirmish figures and a smattering of 15mm fantasy and the 15mm look pretty good, but they also take up much less space and are faster to paint etc. The Copplestone 15/18mm figures are also very nice and on par with 28mm IMHO. Or do I cull it right back and focus more on 15mm.

Also I have a reasonable Darkest Africa army in 28mm which I have painted 270 figures for, but I have another 120 unpainted after culling spares. I could replace these with Blue Moon 18mm and it would probably be quicker to paint the same number of figures in 15mm as I have left to paint in 28mm.

Some of the games I play are solo but for PvP games I would need to get both sides or convince my opponents to use 15mm instead. Also a lot of my friends prefer 28mm and I don't want to sell armies I have to play with friends, and then leave their armies without an opponent by selling mine.

The idea of selling some of my 28mm off and replacing with 15mm is appealing but I have put a lot of effort into the 28mm I have, but there is still a long way to go. And there is a nostalgia factor with fond memories of fielding 28mm various armies over the years.

I'd be interested to hear from others who have tried this or contemplated switching scales like me.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

If I may say so, you seem rather conflicted, especially given your user name and the presumed typo in the heading. [MOD Edit: fixed the title to match the topic.]

I’m afraid I don’t have much to offer in the way of practical advice. Like many, I often ponder the respective merits of different scales for a particular project but have never contemplated downsizing existing armies in the way you describe. (My own circumstances make this question rather academic.) If having the armies in both scales isn’t feasible then it’s clearly a major dilemma, given the circumstances you describe. I must assume you’ve discussed it with the people you play with, or intend to. I would imagine their responses would play a large part in your eventual decision.

[6mmfan]

Ha, yes I play a number of scales from 2-28mm and although I'm obviously a fan of 6mm scale, there are times others scales can suit a period or type of game better.

Something I should add to my post is that this is also driven by a desire to bring some more enjoyment back to the hobby and get it more under control, rather than a feeling of being overwhelmed by my lead pile. At the moment its too big and I have too many projects on the go at once and a lot more I still want to start. But selling off existing figures and rebuying them in 15mm still means more to do, but hopefully it will be more manageable.

I did cull a lot of figures on 2023 and I plan to be more ruthless this year, including painted figures (which i don't normally sell off).

I haven't discussed it with friends yet, although it has been stewing in my brain for a while. Most of them are moving more to 28mm while I'm contemplating going the other way, but I won't be short on 28mm figures even if I do cull some figures. And me and my friends tend to collect both sides in a lot of periods so its not a a problem for a number of periods. I certainly have some regrets getting into certain periods but i don't want to leave my friends in the lurch.

[Elbows]

Only real space savings you'll make is terrain, or if you're playing "army" games in 28mm...and even then you'd have to be running 40K levels of models to have an issue.  Most of my 28mm skirmish games take up almost no space until I consider the terrain.  A small 4L "RUB" can hold a lot of 28mm scale figures.

I can't endorse "changing" scales on something you've already painted.  I also never endorse playing the same game at various scales.  That tops my list of "time wasted".

I don't imagine you'll get most people to switch to 15mm, particularly not for skirmish games and the like.  While I've seen a "few"...most 15mm projects don't approach the visual attraction of a nice 28mm game (terrain, figures, etc.).  Only 15mm game I run is Battlegroup and that's a full army sized game.

I'd start with tossing or selling off stuff you don't actually play.  Almost all of us have a bunch of that.  Then concentrate on streamlining your storage situations.  Maybe look at better solutions, magnetized trays, etc.  You can often "trim" down the space you're taking up by simple reorganization.

I have some friends who own random games in scales that none of the rest of our group play in...and they never get to play those games.  So, don't be "that" guy, unless you're going to do both sides for a game that other people have expressed interest in (as you mentioned above).

[DaveCrow]

I love 15mm. I use it for big battle games and for skirmishes.  It does have a smaller footprint than 28mm, but how much smaller depends on your basing. The same with 40mm going the other way. The footprint for figures is not that much different.

For me the space saving with the smaller sicales (I do a little 6mm too) comes from two factors. One movement and ranges are usually significantly shorter. Half-inches or centimeters instead of inches requires about a quarter the overall playing space. Although you can lose some of that advantage if you are not careful. How many of us have not wished for a bigger battlefield? The second space saving is terrain, especially buildings. A really large 15mm building can still be smaller than a small 28mm. I built a big (60% 28mm) tavern for a 15mm skirmish game and it is about the size of a 28mm cottage. The only reason I built it that big was so that I could fit my figure bases on the balcony. Usually I use Dave Graffam card models printed at 50%.  This gives me building a quarter the size of 28mm. The same Woodland Scenics trees look like mighty oaks instead of over grown shrubs. Smaller terrain also means I can fit more of it in my storage.

Modern 18mm figures have sculpting to rival 28mm. I can see mustaches and sho buckles on my Blue Moon.

I play mostly solo games so I don't have the problem finding an opponent. I learned the lesson of always collecting at least a small force for both sides when I was a member of a now defunct club.  I still have my orphaned Chinese Warlord troops from out Back of Beyond campaign. Nice figures, but I haven't had them out in twenty years. Largely because I have no suitable opposition for them.

I have found most gamers will play with any figures as long as they are already on the table. Worth a chat with your mates to be sure they will play 15mm games before you make a big investement. If they simply won't play that scale you will miss a lot of fun.

For a while I gamed AWI in 6, 15, and 40mm! Big battle, small engagement, and skirmish respectively.  I could have done it all in one scale, but I enjoyed painting and collecting the figures in different scales.

I am starting an FIW project in 18mm Blue Moon, in part because my lead mountain of unpainted 28mm for the period is buried somewhere in my ex-wife's basement. We are on friendly terms, but it is easier to just start over, and I only have a standard desk top for gaming table space now.  Song of Drums and Tomahawks on a 2 foot square board is a treat. I put a lazy Susan under the board and I don't even have to get up to see the battle from the other side.

[Easy E]

Wow.  That seems.... harder than just finishing off your 28mm.  However, if it is what you need to do for your mental health needs, it helps your mental health needs.

I personally never part with a painted mini.  I just repurpose it to other things.   

[nicknorthstar]

Don't do it.

The trend as gamers get older is to buy bigger figure 'cus they are easier to see, you're going the wrong way my friend. 

I'm not saying don't have a new 15mm project, you are right about Copplestone's 15mm, I look at them all the time and get flashes of inspiration to get them painted for a new project, but don't ditch the 28s.

(Personally, I played 15mm Ancients 25 years ago. Sold all the armies & have never gone back)

[6mmfan]

Only real space savings you'll make is terrain, or if you're playing "army" games in 28mm...and even then you'd have to be running 40K levels of models to have an issue.  Most of my 28mm skirmish games take up almost no space until I consider the terrain.  A small 4L "RUB" can hold a lot of 28mm scale figures.

Some of my periods are too big regardless of the scale and I have been reducing them already. I spent the last few years buying a lot of figures and now I have a massive pile to paint, something I think a lot of gamers experienced during Covid.

I can't endorse "changing" scales on something you've already painted.  I also never endorse playing the same game at various scales.  That tops my list of "time wasted".

I don't imagine you'll get most people to switch to 15mm, particularly not for skirmish games and the like.  While I've seen a "few"...most 15mm projects don't approach the visual attraction of a nice 28mm game (terrain, figures, etc.).  Only 15mm game I run is Battlegroup and that's a full army sized game.

I'd start with tossing or selling off stuff you don't actually play.  Almost all of us have a bunch of that.  Then concentrate on streamlining your storage situations.  Maybe look at better solutions, magnetized trays, etc.  You can often "trim" down the space you're taking up by simple reorganization.

Good advice, I have spent a lot of last year counting up what I have already which is quite sobering. This is one of the reasons to switch to a scale that can be painted faster and take up less room. My garage is pretty full and so I need to look at ways to reduce the amount of wargaming stuff in there. A lot is terrain and I tend to make too much when I get into a period.

I have some friends who own random games in scales that none of the rest of our group play in...and they never get to play those games.  So, don't be "that" guy, unless you're going to do both sides for a game that other people have expressed interest in (as you mentioned above).

I think I'm already that guy and for some of those solo games will suffice and perhaps one day I will find someone keen on some of those random games.

[6mmfan]

Don't do it.

The trend as gamers get older is to buy bigger figure 'cus they are easier to see, you're going the wrong way my friend. 

I'm not saying don't have a new 15mm project, you are right about Copplestone's 15mm, I look at them all the time and get flashes of inspiration to get them painted for a new project, but don't ditch the 28s.

(Personally, I played 15mm Ancients 25 years ago. Sold all the armies & have never gone back)

Yes a lot of my friends are moving more of their gaming to 28mm and so I am trending the other way. I should mention I'm not planning on getting rid of all my 28mm. Just some where I have got too much or I want to play it on smaller surfaces.

[6mmfan]

Wow.  That seems.... harder than just finishing off your 28mm.  However, if it is what you need to do for your mental health needs, it helps your mental health needs.

I personally never part with a painted mini.  I just repurpose it to other things.

Yeah I don't like selling painted figures especially 28mm and especially as I get older and appreciate the effort I have put into them. But do I really need 500 28mm fantasy skirmish figures with another 400+ to go, and that's not counting the 100+ figures I have for dungeon crawls.

Some of the reasons for this is definitely about getting my collection under control, and not buying stuff that will sit in the leadpile for years before I start it.  Moving to 15mm for some parts of my collection will help me get through the pile faster as I can probably paint 3-4 15mm figures in the time it takes me to paint 1 28mm figure.

[dickiegranthum]

Wow, I’m doing the same!

Ironically, I used to be massively into 6mm.

I have chosen N scale - slightly smaller than 15mm, maybe not as well served for all the periods; I’m currently loving the Victrix WW2 lines, as well as doing a Gojira! 1954 in N scale (SO easy to find awesome terrain!).

Its actually got me excited about modelling, again.

I think I’ll be selling off my 28mm stuff on the Bazaar once I figure out how to post pictures. I’m a techno-tard.

[6mmfan]

Wow, I’m doing the same!

Ironically, I used to be massively into 6mm.

I have chosen N scale - slightly smaller than 15mm, maybe not as well served for all the periods; I’m currently loving the Victrix WW2 lines, as well as doing a Gojira! 1954 in N scale (SO easy to find awesome terrain!).

Its actually got me excited about modelling, again.

I think I’ll be selling off my 28mm stuff on the Bazaar once I figure out how to post pictures. I’m a techno-tard.

Good luck. I'm still very much into 6mm but 15mm works better for skirmish style games and my eye sight is not getting any better. I purchased some 15mm Sci-fi and Pony wars which have got me enthused.

[6mmfan]

I love 15mm. I use it for big battle games and for skirmishes.  It does have a smaller footprint than 28mm, but how much smaller depends on your basing. The same with 40mm going the other way. The footprint for figures is not that much different.

For me the space saving with the smaller sicales (I do a little 6mm too) comes from two factors. One movement and ranges are usually significantly shorter. Half-inches or centimeters instead of inches requires about a quarter the overall playing space. Although you can lose some of that advantage if you are not careful. How many of us have not wished for a bigger battlefield? The second space saving is terrain, especially buildings. A really large 15mm building can still be smaller than a small 28mm. I built a big (60% 28mm) tavern for a 15mm skirmish game and it is about the size of a 28mm cottage. The only reason I built it that big was so that I could fit my figure bases on the balcony. Usually I use Dave Graffam card models printed at 50%.  This gives me building a quarter the size of 28mm. The same Woodland Scenics trees look like mighty oaks instead of over grown shrubs. Smaller terrain also means I can fit more of it in my storage.

Yes that is what I'm planning to do by reducing the ground scale in half for 28->15mm. It appeals to me as I have limited space for a gaming table, and reducing the storage space for figures and scenery is one of the reasons for looking to switch scales. Buildings and trees can be impressive for the scale but are still easy to store. And I will have the option to play bigger games on normal sized tables.

Modern 18mm figures have sculpting to rival 28mm. I can see mustaches and sho buckles on my Blue Moon.

Yes I will get some Blue Moon. Some of the photos on their website are terrible and I'm sure they are better in the flesh.

I play mostly solo games so I don't have the problem finding an opponent. I learned the lesson of always collecting at least a small force for both sides when I was a member of a now defunct club.  I still have my orphaned Chinese Warlord troops from out Back of Beyond campaign. Nice figures, but I haven't had them out in twenty years. Largely because I have no suitable opposition for them.

I have found most gamers will play with any figures as long as they are already on the table. Worth a chat with your mates to be sure they will play 15mm games before you make a big investement. If they simply won't play that scale you will miss a lot of fun.

For a while I gamed AWI in 6, 15, and 40mm! Big battle, small engagement, and skirmish respectively.  I could have done it all in one scale, but I enjoyed painting and collecting the figures in different scales.

I am starting an FIW project in 18mm Blue Moon, in part because my lead mountain of unpainted 28mm for the period is buried somewhere in my ex-wife's basement. We are on friendly terms, but it is easier to just start over, and I only have a standard desk top for gaming table space now.  Song of Drums and Tomahawks on a 2 foot square board is a treat. I put a lazy Susan under the board and I don't even have to get up to see the battle from the other side.

I've got a few different groups of gamers I play with and some of them will happily play if figures, rules and terrain is provided,  and most of them are open to different games. My scifi figures will be use for Spacestation Zero and this can be played solo along with 5 Parsecs so that is fine, although I have a friend keen too and he has figures.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[dickiegranthum]

You’re welcome!

I totally forgot about the awesome AB Napoleonic figures, which are ~18mm - and STUNNING.

Damn these scales! 

[6mmfan]

Yes and Forged in Battle and Xyston make amazing Ancients figures