Hail Caesar WOTR supplement versus Billhooks

[Eric the Shed]

Evening all - just donee a short opinion piece on Billhooks versus the new Hail Caesar Supplement focussed on the WOTR - it might be of interest or provoke some thoughts - details here... https://shedwars.blogspot.com/2025/02/hail-caesar-vs-never-mind-billhooks.html

[Ran The Cid]

Thanks for the overview.  And I think your summary is spot on.  I'm a huge HC fan, but there are certain armies/match ups that are nearly identical - just with different figures.

[Eric the Shed]

Thank you

[James Morris]

Very useful write up backed up with a lot of experience - cheers! I bought the Hail Caesar supplement last week and would concur that it’s a fantastic gaming source book, whatever game you’re playing. Top job by Rob Grayston.

[Jack Jones]

Never Mind the Billhooks got me hooked 😬 but I bought the Hail Caesar supplement expecting it to be a great source book (as their Blood on the Nile supplement is) … and it is.

As James says, no matter which rules you’re using, it’s a very useful volume, particularly if you are new to the period.

Cheers
JJ

[Wellington Bonaparte]

Great review, been thinking about getting the WOTR HC book. Definitely will now. I really enjoyed your WOTR campaign and as a result used Billhooks for my WOTR and GOT battles, works superbly but I ike HC as well!

[syrinx0]

Well written review.  thanks

[Legiox217]

I very much appreciate the time you took to present your thoughts and share some action shots!
I've just ordered a batch of Front Rank WotR, so am looking for books that might help to inspire me. I've ordered Billhooks partly thanks to your impression on it. I am tempted to grab the HC one as well, but as my needs will be for smaller battles I can't see myself ever playing HC since Billhooks seems more suited for a lad with fewer figures. Still, looks like a lovely book.
Has anyone some experience with the 8-12 model skirmish/campaign ruleset, Ruckus? Looks interesting, I am tempted by the pitch but don't know much else about it. Does anyone have an idea how many figures per side it would take to get a small match going in Billhooks?
Happy hobbying

[Eric the Shed]

Does anyone have an idea how many figures per side it would take to get a small match going in Billhooks?

Thank you - for 2 armies worth in Billhooks Id recommend 120 Bow, 96 Bill, 24 Men at Arms, 16 light horse, 16 Mounted Men at Arms, a couple of guns, and about 24 handguns.

[Captain Blood]

Does anyone have an idea how many figures per side it would take to get a small match going in Billhooks?

Thank you - for 2 armies worth in Billhooks Id recommend...

Giles (Eric) doesn't do small matches

For a small game, the minimum you probably need on each side is a couple of blocks of billmen and longbows (24 figures to a block - 12 bills and 12 bows), a unit of men-at-arms on foot (12), a couple of units of skirmishers with crossbows / handguns (6 figures each), a gun and three crew, and a mounted unit - light horse or mounted knights (8 mounted figures), plus three leader figures. So around 80 foot figures and 10 mounted (depending on how many of your leaders you decide to portray as mounted).

x 2, if you're providing both sides, you're looking at about 160 foot figures, 20 mounted, and a couple of guns.

[Eric the Shed]

Giles (Eric) doesn't do small matches

Thank you Richard - my thoughts were based on creating variations with the armies but your calculations are most likely the bare minimum. We both however forgot to add the Leaders - One box of Perry Mounted Men at Arms would give you 8 horse plus 4 leaders.

[rampantlion]

I've played Billhooks several times and it is a fun game.  I think it's a little more lighthearted than HC.  I second the quality of the HC Roses book, really well done!  As for unit composition, I was actually excited to see the retinue mixed option and I like the way that men at arms are blended into units to bolster them.  I my vision of an army that is how it should look.  On the scale of HC I don't picture a huge unit of MAA marching fighting alone.  I don't see that many of them in one place but rather see them fighting each with their own household amongst their retinue.  I don't claim to be an expert on the period but it feels right to me.  Both are great games I think.

[Legiox217]

Giles (Eric) doesn't do small matches

For a small game, the minimum you probably need on each side is a couple of blocks of billmen and longbows (24 figures to a block - 12 bills and 12 bows), a unit of men-at-arms on foot (12), a couple of units of skirmishers with crossbows / handguns (6 figures each), a gun and three crew, and a mounted unit - light horse or mounted knights (8 mounted figures), plus three leader figures. So around 80 foot figures and 10 mounted (depending on how many of your leaders you decide to portray as mounted).

x 2, if you're providing both sides, you're looking at about 160 foot figures, 20 mounted, and a couple of guns.

Thanks for the breakdown. I appreciate Eric's response as well, but his numbers must be off, because yours sound cheaper Joking of course, great to have the recommendation. I don't know whether or not I will need to provide both forces, hopefully just one. I bought nearly the entire FR WotR range so that's a start for one army, 30 longbows 24 bills, 18 men-at-arms, 15 mounted men-at-arms, plus some lighter cav/guns/personalities etc
I am trying to keep it all metal and as uniquely sculpted (minimal duplicates) as possible. I was eyeing up Perry pretty hard for the Scurrers, and I am ALL OVER the Kerns/Galloglass....now to justify getting the order to 300 pounds for free shipping to the states...I need an AWI army, right ...?
I know they won't match up with the Front Rank, but is there anyone else who will? Maybe Crusader?
I remember trying to put the Perry Plastic together back as a teen, coming off some nice GW kits at the time I completely lost patience for them. Tried the ACW kit recently too and was kind of unimpressed. Bang for buck the little lads are practically free, and they paint up beautifully. I just couldn't put my finger on it.