how do you define the "wild west" and how was it different from the wild east?

[frondaro]

so i have been looking for a historical forum to ask this question in, i hope this is an appropriate forum

how do you define the "wild west" and how was it different from the wild east?

what was the wild west? what made it "wild"?

what do you guys think?

thank you

[Freddy]

so i have been looking for a historical forum to ask this question in, i hope this is an appropriate forum

how do you define the "wild west" and how was it different from the wild east?

what was the wild west? what made it "wild"?

what do you guys think?

thank you

Lack of infrastructure and no state level organization and law. Unlike the more established eastern states, most "wild west" territories were not even formal states of the USA, in the 1860s it had only 30something states, and even those were sometimes loosely organized. Arizona and New Mexico only joined in 1912! To put into perspective, the size of the USA is around 9M km2, while Europe from the Urals to Lisbon is 10M. And by the time of 1861 roughly half of the area of the USA were among these not even formally annexed territories.

It is maybe worth to mention that most of the newly annexed territories became pretty calm really fast when civilization reached them (save some infamous hubs of violence like Tombstone), while violence and crime was teeming in the big cities of the shores.

Also worth to mention that the characteristic romantism and heroism of the wild west was often exaggragated by contemporary and later popular culture, much like New York being full of terrorists, car chases and alien invasions. By "wild west" most people think about this romanticized picture shown in classical movies and pulp stories.

[has.been]

The saying I heard was,"There is no law west of St. Louis and no God west of Fort Smith."
Hence the 'Wild'.
The 'West' is because the largest movement into that area came from the USA, i.e. Westwards.
Remember though that California was Spanish & Alaska, Russian. The Fort in Los Angeles,
the Presidio, was built by the Spanish as a buffer to Russian trappers who were moving south.
Had history been slightly different we would be discussing either the Wild North, or the Wild South.

[joekano]

You also have to remember, there were a lot of conflicts with the native peoples as the settlers moved west, so it could be quite dangerous for isolated pioneers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars#West_of_the_Mississippi_(1804%E2%80%931924)

[Freddy]

An interesting question maybe that when actually was the wild west era? The 1848 gold rush was pretty wild west, and maybe the 1916 Pancho Villa raid was the last truly wild west act, as the motorisation quickly killed the horse riding life also after 1918 everyone was busy with the prohibition. Or you could say Colt made the wild west (1836, first commercially available revolver) and Ford killed it(1908, Fort T-model, beginning of large scale car manufacturing)?

[jon_1066]

The era of the cowboy lasted only about 25 years. 

[Freddy]

The era of the cowboy lasted only about 25 years.

Cowboys appeared in the mid 1700s and they still exist. The great cattle drives started after ACW and lasted around until the 1890s, that is true.

[Cat]

Remember though that California was Spanish & Alaska, Russian. The Fort in Los Angeles, the Presidio, was built by the Spanish as a buffer to Russian trappers who were moving south.
Had history been slightly different we would be discussing either the Wild North, or the Wild South.

I like where that's going — If Russian trappers discover gold first, then the Gold Rush is on earlier — coming from Russia!

[Cory]

Somewhere in the 1830s American settlers begin to appear in very small numbers and at the same time the fur industry begins to rapidly decline. That is the front bookend, timewise. On the other end there are a number of incidents after 1900, but the First World War is really what changed the public zeitgeist, though for many the notion of the west hadn't died yet and for many now it still lives on in some fashion.

As to where, in the 1840s and 50s Kansas and Missouri were definitely in the west. The James gang raid in Northfield Minnesota in 1876 was thoroughly a wild west event, but even then many thought of it as "back east". So the where was really an ever shrinking area of low population.

[frank xerox]

All of the above and also we’ve been conditioned to believe it looked a certain way; prairies & deserts & wide brimmed hats & six shooters.
If its historically accurate but doesn’t look like that, is it still The Wild West?

[Cat]

All of the above and also we’ve been conditioned to believe it looked a certain way; prairies & deserts & wide brimmed hats & six shooters.
If its historically accurate but doesn’t look like that, is it still The Wild West?

At a young age, Wild Wild West taught me that it can look like foggy dockside scenes in San Fransisco with the tongs everywhere.
: 3

[Will Bailie]

how do you define the "wild west" and how was it different from the wild east?

what was the wild west? what made it "wild"?

I don't define game genres that tightly.  'Wild West' is more of a style than a clearly defined historical era, and to me is not limited to the western US states between (say) 1866 and 1910.  Things that to me have a wild west 'feel' would include Butch and Sundance in Bolivia, Ned Kelly and the Australian bushrangers, and the Mad Trapper of Rat River battling against the Mounties, or Soviet "Easterns" like White Sun of the Desert, or even that really wild Korean movie the Good the Bad and the Wierd!

[Freddy]

Somewhere in the 1830s American settlers begin to appear in very small numbers and at the same time the fur industry begins to rapidly decline. That is the front bookend, timewise. On the other end there are a number of incidents after 1900, but the First World War is really what changed the public zeitgeist, though for many the notion of the west hadn't died yet and for many now it still lives on in some fashion.

Indeed, the Wild West never died, it just faded away- hard to differentiate between the real thing and its heritage living on. I mentioned the Pancho Villa raid because in response of that the frontier regions became heavily militarized, and after 1918 the prohibition and the motorization came. (Also one of the best western movies, The Wild Bunch is set in 1913). USA already reached 1 million cars before ww1 so horses and stagecoaches became outdated in just a few years time- during the 1910s the face of the USA changed dramatically.

As to where, in the 1840s and 50s Kansas and Missouri were definitely in the west. The James gang raid in Northfield Minnesota in 1876 was thoroughly a wild west event, but even then many thought of it as "back east". So the where was really an ever shrinking area of low population.

Worth to note here that there is a huge difference between the rural and urban parts of the country even within an “old” state, due to the fact that USA states are pretty huge, most of them would count as a large country in Europe, but with 25% of the population  (thus infratsructure) density even today. 150 years ago even the first 13 states were  ,,civilized” only around the seaside metropolises, towards west they had large forests, marshes and wilderness. Huge physical distances/barriers cause the fragmentation of the society too.

I like where that's going — If Russian trappers discover gold first, then the Gold Rush is on earlier — coming from Russia!

That would make some kickass western movies though.
Tumbleweeds run around the cacti, in the nearby desert smalltown the bell of the little onion domed church rings 12.00. Cowboys playing chess in the only saloon, drinking vodka. A stranger enters, spitting on the ground, with ushanka hat pulled to shade his eyes.
-Howdy, cyka!- says with slow, hoarse words, raising his 7,62*54R calibre 1895 Winchester
-This town aint not big enough for both of us, blyat!- the other reaching for the Nagant M1895 revolver
Two shots, the blood slowly mixes with the tea from the punctured samovar. The stranger and the senorita drive away in the desert sunset on a three-horse troika cart.

[has.been]

I like where that's going — If Russian trappers discover gold first, then the Gold Rush is on earlier — coming from Russia!
That would make some kickass western movies though.
Tumbleweeds run around the cacti, in the nearby desert smalltown the bell of the little onion domed church rings 12.00. Cowboys playing chess in the only saloon, drinking vodka. A stranger enters, spitting on the ground, with ushanka hat pulled to shade his eyes.
-Howdy, cyka!- says with slow, hoarse words, raising his 7,62*54R calibre 1895 Winchester
-This town aint not big enough for both of us, blyat!- the other reaching for the Nagant M1895 revolver
Two shots, the blood slowly mixes with the tea from the punctured samovar. The stranger and the senorita drive away in the desert sunset on a three-horse troika cart.

I so want to see that.