(COMMERCIAL-KS) - Flank March Miniatures REFORGER 1 - US forces for the Cold War

[Cypher226]

Not seen this posted here so as a fan I thought I'd share Flank March's latest venture into Kickstarter and the Cold War, this time it's the turn of the US Infantry for the 80's:

Kickstarter Link

From the page:

"REFORGER 1 will add the infantry of the mighty US Army to the growing Flank March Cold War range. The starting platoon is focused on the Mechanized Infantry stationed in West Germany ready to blunt and stall any Soviet incursion.

If the project goes well, a host of Stretch Goals will add heavier kit, unique specialists and even some additional thematic units allowing you to customise your platoon to represent lighter Airborne forces rushing to Europe or even Rear Area troops desperately holding on against a Soviet breakthrough."

Having printed a platoon's worth of the Soviet Motor Rifles from a previous campaign, these look to be just as good and perfect opposition.  All stretch goals have been unlocked, promising a huge range of options.  Metals will be available soon after the campaign concludes, for those not equipped to print

[carlos marighela]

Very nice! Alas, a little too late to snag my wallet. I already have a platoon's worth each of early 1980s and late '80s US Army from Underfire and a goodly selection of the Bob Mack vehicles from elsewhere.

I'm  alittle more inclined to the associated Bob Mack KS, AirLand Battle, if only cos I'd prefer a Sheridan in 1/50 than 1/56 and because one of the locked goals is a Gama Goat.

[Tom Dulski]

 Very interesting, I'd be interested to see what the sprues look like

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I'm  alittle more inclined to the associated Bob Mack KS, AirLand Battle, if only cos I'd prefer a Sheridan in 1/50 than 1/56 and because one of the locked goals is a Gama Goat.

The Airland Battle KS says - US Army STL Files. 1/56. 1/72 & 1/100, though rescaling should work..

The light tank looks good, memories of T2K.

[CapnJim]

I'm considering these.  One of my wargaming group has a 3d printer....

I like the "patrol cap" head option, and the ground-mount TOW launcher.  Got a few days to decide.....

[carlos marighela]

Empress do the ground mounted TOW. Bit of a pain but I've been experimenting with Rubicon US infantry parts to make the crew.

I know the default for the Bob Macks is 1/56 but they can be reliably be printed out at 1/50, 1/48 or whatever you fancy. I have the M60A3,  M113A2 in 1/50 aleady. My man in Germany supplied me with a couple of AAV-7s and enough track pieces to convert/backdate the Empress versions.

[Rochejaquelein]

This was my honest reaction

[carlos marighela]

There's a slight problem with the models as they stand, at least for those of us rivet counters out there. It's my understanding that when the PASGT system was rolled out, units tended to get the full set, body armour and helmets rather than just the helmets alone.

There were exceptions. The USMC was fielding a combination of  PASGT vests and the old M1 steel pot in Grenada in 1983 and I've seen photos of individuals in the Berlin Brigade circa 1986 in K-Pots and the old M1968 body armour*but looking at period photos it seems that, generally speaking, once PAGST was issued to regular US troops it was the full kit, not bits and bobs. Whether that was true of National Guard and Reserve elements I don't know.**

There are photos of troops on deployment in other tropical areas like Honduras in the 1988 Golden Pheasant deployment where K-Pots and no body armour is seen but that was an exercise not a combat operation. the 82nd who participated in that deployment were definitely wearing PASGT on combat operations in Grenada in 1983 and Panama in 1989.

The M16A1 is, on balance a good choice as it took some time for it to get fielded by all and the M16A2 was only officially adopted in 1986 anyway. Under Fire went the opposite route fielding both their early and late 1980s US infantry with the M16A2, which is an anachronism for the early war figures. That said a a brush with a nail file and pianted up it's hard to tell. By the 1990s though, the M16A1 looks a little odd, unless you are modelling figures from supporting arms. Of course by the 1990s M249 SAWs will also be in evidence. They started getting rolled out to Airborne and Light Infantry in the mid 1980s but were scarce elsewhere as there were problems with the early production models, so they got sent back for 'product improvement'.  Under Fire do at least provide the proper early model M249, so you can field their figures as late '80s/ early '90s intevention forces.

Minor quibbles all and it is nice to see more options out there. Fingers crossed they might do some 1980s French Army figures as that's a big gap in the market as is, at least in 28mm.

 
* Other photos in the same sequence show others wearing the full PASGT set. There are also photos of members of the 4-6th Infantry in Panama wearing the same combination, these were another stateside formation. The point being once body armour was ordered worn it seems it was worn by all regardless of type.

** More evidence of older body armour and K-Pots can be seen on photos of the California NG during the 1992 LA riots, along with M16A1s being fielded by the NG MPs. The USMC and US Army regulars deployed to LA were, of course, in the full PASGT kit.

[CapnJim]

There's a slight problem with the models as they stand, at least for those of us rivet counters out there. It's my understanding that when the PASGT system was rolled out, units tended to get the full set, body armour and helmets rather than just the helmets alone.

There were exceptions. The USMC was fielding a combination of  PASGT vests and the old M1 steel pot in Grenada in 1983 and I've seen photos of individuals in the Berlin Brigade circa 1986 in K-Pots and the old M1968 body armour*but looking at period photos it seems that, generally speaking, once PAGST was issued to regular US troops it was the full kit, not bits and bobs. Whether that was true of National Guard and Reserve elements I don't know.**

There are photos of troops on deployment in other tropical areas like Honduras in the 1988 Golden Pheasant deployment where K-Pots and no body armour is seen but that was an exercise not a combat operation. the 82nd who participated in that deployment were definitely wearing PASGT on combat operations in Grenada in 1983 and Panama in 1989.

The M16A1 is, on balance a good choice as it took some time for it to get fielded by all and the M16A2 was only officially adopted in 1986 anyway. Under Fire went the opposite route fielding both their early and late 1980s US infantry with the M16A2, which is an anachronism for the early war figures. That said a a brush with a nail file and pianted up it's hard to tell. By the 1990s though, the M16A1 looks a little odd, unless you are modelling figures from supporting arms. Of course by the 1990s M249 SAWs will also be in evidence. They started getting rolled out to Airborne and Light Infantry in the mid 1980s but were scarce elsewhere as there were problems with the early production models, so they got sent back for 'product improvement'.  Under Fire do at least provide the proper early model M249, so you can field their figures as late '80s/ early '90s intevention forces.

Minor quibbles all and it is nice to see more options out there. Fingers crossed they might do some 1980s French Army figures as that's a big gap in the market as is, at least in 28mm.

 
* Other photos in the same sequence show others wearing the full PASGT set. There are also photos of members of the 4-6th Infantry in Panama wearing the same combination, these were another stateside formation. The point being once body armour was ordered worn it seems it was worn by all regardless of type.

** More evidence of older body armour and K-Pots can be seen on photos of the California NG during the 1992 LA riots, along with M16A1s being fielded by the NG MPs. The USMC and US Army regulars deployed to LA were, of course, in the full PASGT kit.

The 1980s were an interesting time in the US Army, equipment-wise.  And, based in my experience living it, carlos' description is pretty accurate, but things weren't quite that clear-cut. 

Over the course of the decade, the Army fielded all kinds of new stuff.  Of course, it took some time for new equipment to get issued across the board, with combat arms units deployed overseas (as well as units like the Rangers and 82nd Airborne) getting the newest stuff first.  Nylon web gear replaced the old canvas stuff.  Kevlar vests and helmets (we never called 'em k-pots, BTW) replaced the old M1 steel pots (and not always together).  M16A2s and M9s replaced M16A1s and M1911s, and the M249 got introduced.  M1s (and later in the decade) M1A1s replaced M60A3s and M48A5s, M2s/3s replaced M113s and ITVs, HEMMTs replaced GOERS and Gamma Goats, Humvees replaced m151s, etc. etc. etc.

As this equipment got (sometimes slowly) fielded. you could see a wide variety of equipment (both personal and vehicles), particularly between 1984 and 1988).  With ARNG and USAR units, that transition would last into the 90s.   It wasn't quite "anything goes", but kinda....

BTW, I think I'm gonna get some of these chaps.   A unit of patrol cap-wearing would come in handy for our planned US intervention in El Perdomo in late 1988...

 

[Steffan@FlankMarch]

Hi all,

Registered ages ago because I wanted to start getting involved in discussions on here then completely missed that my registration got approved!

Really appreciate the post and the kind words.

Want to say thanks to you in particular CapnJim, I read loads of your posts while I was putting together the wargaming guide to go along with REFORGER. Really really helpful.

Carlos  - don't disagree with anything you said. I went with no PASGT vests as they'd have made the M1 helmets make no sense, all my REFORGER photos show troops with PASGT helmets but no vests (not always a reliable resource as training isn't combat) and I also read that in Europe generally they weren't worn all that often except for on sentry duty and by troops in Berlin. As my current ranges mostly focus on early '80s it seemed like the best call but its always hard to make a range that works for everything.

Luckily this is just REFORGER 1 with a bit of luck there'll be more REFORGERs to come

[carlos marighela]

Cool. I'll probably end up getting your TOW.

If you do expand give some thought to doing some 1970s/ early 1980s US Army in the older OG-107 fatigues. Just think of the character pack that could contain both Bill Murray and Goldie Hawn. 

BTW the Dutch, Belgians and French could do with some love.

[Steffan@FlankMarch]

I'm planning out how I could do some older late 50s/early 60s projects - 70s feels like it might be a bit too similar.

That said, I completely agree - Dutch/Belgians/French are all absolutely on my to-do list. To be honest if you can think of it, it's probably on my to-do list it's just a matter of when.

[CapnJim]

I did the Reforger 1 Kickstarter.  Actually my wargame bud Ted did, on my behalf - he has the 3D printer.  He gave my the free figures and heads - I think they look pretty good, so i'm looking forward to getting the whole shebang.  I plan to paint up the free figs (the one with the steel pot, and the second with patrol cap...) in a couple week, and will post pics on my "Modern Stuff" thread when I do.

And thanks for the kind words.  I don't remember seeing anything about a wargaming guide on your Kickstarter page.  But now I want to read it when it's done...

[Rochejaquelein]

I'm planning out how I could do some older late 50s/early 60s projects - 70s feels like it might be a bit too similar.

I was just thinking the other day that late 1950s - early 1960s is really underrepresented. Plenty of potential flashpoints for the cold war to go hot from the Hungarian Uprising to Cuban Missile Crisis. The establishment of the Bundeswehr and NVA...
 With the late 60s and 70s I imagine you could just use Vietnam miniatures (but no Soviets).

 Plus, you could use them in Pulp games to fight giant ants, spiders, and robots. 

[carlos marighela]

For the 1950s, you can pretty much use late WW2 US troops, at least for cooler weather. WW2 weapons were still in evidence into the 1960s, as the roll out of the M14 from the late '50s was very slow. The Berlin Brigade was still armed with Garands and BARs at the start of the Berlin Wall Crisis in 1962. The imagery of the US Army still kitted out with WW2 weapons spurred the Pentagon to do a quick issue of M14s.

The field jacket was still pretty much the same as the M1943 version and the webbing was WW2 era. About the only noticeable changes were the boots, which changed to high top, black lace ups in the late '50s but the boots on models can be filed back and painted black. That and the change in insignia. There were even NG units using Garands and BARs into the early 1970s, the Ohio National Guard being an infamous example and well documented. Basically the Artizan late war Yanks will cover these, or if you prefer more impedimentia, the Empress versions.

For warmer climes and summer wear, you really need the OG-107 uniform. It stayed basically the same, with some minor changes to the material, cuffs and pocket corners from the 1950s through to the 1980s. None of which would be really noticeable in 28mm. There are a handful of troops from Brigade Games with Garands and some rather iffy sculpts from Killer B with M14s and M1956 webbing that cover this but a dedicated range would be lovely.

The various patterns of tropical uniforms were not generally used post -Vietnam, there was a general reversion to OG-107. There were limited exceptions. The 75th Ranger Regiment used Vietnam era green tropical uniforms in Grenada in 1982 and a number of SF types sent as training team advisors used them in El Salvador and probably elsewhere. There was also a limited issue of the so-called RDF* uniform to airborne troops and the USMC in the mid 1970s. This was a uniform cut rather like the later BDU uniform, with straight rather than angled chest pockets but in the brown dominant ERDL pattern material of Vietnam vintage. For all intents and purposes in 28mm you could just use the Flank March or Under Fire early 1980s figures for those and to be honest, brown dominant ERDL isn't that different from Woodland. The shapes are a bit smaller that's all. Hard to tell in 28mm.

About the only historical US combat use of the OG-107 uniform, apart from Korea and some very early and limited use in Vietnam would be the US intervention into the Dominican Republic in 1965, although the 82nd Airborne were toting M16s by that time.

All that said, I'd happily buy troops in OG-107 uniforms, either with Garands or M-14s or even M16s. Great for what-ifs like Cuba or holding back invading Martians.

*Rapid Deployment Force.