Space Battles by Rick Priestly

[Snackelwolf]

Greetings,

Have any of you tried Space Battles with this rule set by R. Priestly?  It uses standard decks of cards for combat resolution, and any ships you wish to field.  I'm wondering what you think?

[boneio]

Seems to be a bit under-publicised, I was aware of it being released but have seen very little info on how it actually plays, why this game and not some other, etc. All quite vital for marketing 

[Terry Deathstrike]

Rick did a run through of the rules via the Filmdeg Miniatures channel:

[Rick]

I think I'll pass. Nice idea to use generic miniatures but don't like the grid movement and, frankly, the card driven mechanics are becoming too gimmicky now; they were innovative in tribal but shoving them into any old game just because you can has become a gimmick, not a feature.

[boneio]

Well, good that there's a video, bad that it's 40 minutes long with no time bar indexing and is largely Rick just giving gameplay examples! But that's some marketing at least (if you happen to be aware of one specific YouTube channel  )

the card driven mechanics are becoming too gimmicky now; they were innovative in tribal but shoving them into any old game just because you can has become a gimmick, not a feature.

No more a gimmick than dice, it's just a different probability spread... It sounds like there are 4 types of 'hit' (one per suit) and a value per hit between 0 and 9. So you could simulate it via dice with a d4 and a d10 per 'draw', off the top of my head. It'd have quite different probability curves though.
So, I can't really agree that it's a gimmick, card draw is a fairly elegant way of getting different randomised outcomes without having to make weird custom dice etc. Yes they could just use an ordinary d6 or d10 or whatever probability curve but then why bother making a new ruleset when so many already exist, the point is to be something different!

Not that I can disagree with anyone's personal taste of course (I'm not sure I like grid movement either...!), I just think saying it's a gimmick isn't really justified.

[Rick]

Well it's only my personal opinion, it isn't a law or anything! 
I've never really liked the idea of card driven mechanisms - in most cases it'll be a deal-breaker for a game, whether it's initiative or the whole range of mechanisms like in this one. There are a few games where it seems appropriate and where the balance is about right but, for me, I won't buy many of them.
Also, FYI, a well balanced dice is more random than someone using the same pattern of shuffling every turn.

[boneio]

Sorry, I was feeling argumentative and apparently pedantic

Yeah, I get that the probability for a card deck is quite different. Especially if someone is able to card count, it can really skew outcomes towards the end of a deck.

I quite like card draws for that reason, the question of what triggers a reshuffle etc is another variable.

I can absolutely respect that you don't like that mechanism much and apologise if I came across as trying to say that any mechanism is good/bad/should be universally loved etc  I don't find it gimmicky but perhaps I just haven't played enough card driven games yet so haven't had my fill 

Will be interesting to hear if anyone on LAF has tried this ruleset.

[Rick]

Sorry, I was feeling argumentative and apparently pedantic

Yeah, I get that the probability for a card deck is quite different. Especially if someone is able to card count, it can really skew outcomes towards the end of a deck.

I quite like card draws for that reason, the question of what triggers a reshuffle etc is another variable.

I can absolutely respect that you don't like that mechanism much and apologise if I came across as trying to say that any mechanism is good/bad/should be universally loved etc  I don't find it gimmicky but perhaps I just haven't played enough card driven games yet so haven't had my fill 

Will be interesting to hear if anyone on LAF has tried this ruleset.

No, that's all fine boneio - just slightly different opinions on rule mechanisms and I never felt, reading your post, that you were being antagonistic. Still friendly, still good but a justified challenge to my pre-conceived ideas and opinion.

[Commander Roj]

Rick did a run through of the rules via the Filmdeg Miniatures channel:

Thanks for this. I'd heard of it but didn't know it was out. I must watch it. As for me I don't like square grids but do like hexes, especially if just the vertices are marked. I'm a big fan of PSC's "Red Alert". I don't think it could eclipse that for me, but I do like cards and believe, conversely that they are under exploited for wargames purposes.

[Rick]

Well if anyone does pick it up then do share your experiences - I'd be interested, even if I probably won't change my mind. Reading between the lines, this could have been one of those quick, ad-hoc beer 'n' pretzels games you pull out when you have just enough time for a game witbout too much prep work. Except for the grid. Carrying around a big mat doesn't really make for a quick and easy game to just throw down onto a table nearby. If it can be played gridless then I might even be tempted, card driven mechanics or not, and it could well make for a fun game.

[boneio]

I think Rick said near the start of the video that you could measure instead of grid... but I'm not watching the whole thing (articles are just better... ctrl+f, skim reading...) to verify that sorry 

[Rick]

Hmm. I'm not going to go through the whole video again just to find one comment either! I must've missed the reference to measuring when I watched so thank you for picking it up for me boneio - I have 'Tribal', Easy E seemed to indicate that 'Kobolds and Cobblestones' uses the same mechanisms and they both advocate using the long card edge as a 'measuring stick' so that might work (or short edge with smaller models or table). Hmm that might just do it - y'know, I may be changing my mind on this! 

[Rick]

Interestingly enough, although the rules are available on Amazon, Ral Partha Europe has a range of counters and starships available for the game on their website. RP briefly mentioned that he tried to make some ships when he was doing Rogue Trader, for a potential GW Rogue Trader space combat game (which never took off) and these may be those ships.

[Commander Roj]

It was an interesting watch. I like the fact that it can be played on hexes (I have that Red Alert mat) and you can scale up/down. He did say you could just measure but some game tweaks would be required. I can see why I might choose to play as an alternative to Red Alert occasionally, so I might give it a go sometime. You can probably play a bigger game more quickly than you could play Full Thrust.