A New Project

[ulverston]

Hi Chaps,

After years of admiring the likes of Captain Bloods and Charlies work on here I have finally been tempted to make a serious attempt at the Wars of the Roses. Watching 7th Son videos has not helped my resolve much either. For some reason I struggle painting Perry miniatures, maybe because there is so much detail or they are ever so slightly smaller than what I usually paint? Who knows.
Anyway I have just purchased the Bows and Bills, Mercenaries and Light Horse boxes for the Wars of the Roses along with some bases for the Hail Caesar ruleset. Characters, baggage and a cannon will follow in the coming weeks.
All of this is of course folly as I know nothing of the period and an osprey Essential Histories is in my Amazon cart. Obviously I have a few questions.
I will be playing solo so I want to keep the figure count low and I do like the mixed bill and bow units that 7th Son uses so what base sizes would people suggest? I had thought 60X50mm? I would also consider 40X40 which may be more economical?
Lastly for now is there somewhere to download the 7th Son orders of battle and basing system etc? I seem to remember them being available somewhere? I would like to print these out as a guide before I clip anything off a sprue even.
Thanks in advance for any help. I will post a pic when the figures arrive...

[ulverston]

So, I found the very useful rules additions by 7th son. For those who are interested they are attached to a Youtube video "The Great Neville Procrastination" Battle report number 4. My "research" was a very pleasurable re watch of the videos released on the Wars of the Roses...

[Captain Blood]

Good luck with the new project. The period is a delight

Can’t help you with Hail Caesar base sizes I’m afraid. All mine are individually based and I use movement trays. I’m also only playing the period with Never Mind The Billhooks or Lion Rampant. Interested to try Midgard though. I hear good things about it

[ulverston]

Thank you Captain, I expect this to be ongoing as I will need two opposing armies. I have to say I think I have saved every picture from your Wars of the Roses thread and it has pushed me into actually starting this period. I am sure I am not the only one to have purchased Perry medievals after looking at your work either.

[Charlie_]

I use a variety of different base sizes, because I have variety in my unit sizes. But my infantry (excluding skirmishers) are all 200mm wide, with varying number of ranks.

My archers and smaller 'heavy infantry' units are 20 figures. I've also got one mixed unit of 'bill and bow' the same size. (I have larger heavy infantry units of 3 ranks (30 figures), and the pike units are bigger/deeper still).

So they are all 200x50mm. That's four 50mm square bases, with five figures per base. Though actually it's not, I have a central 100x50 (10 minis) flanked by 2 50x50 bases (5 minis each).

So yes, 5 figures on a 50x50. I'd recommend it! 50x60 obviously would be in the same ballpark.

If you went for 40x40 you'd only be able to fit 4 figures per base.

Now how squeezed in do you want them? I generally think for heavy infantry with polearms, they look MUCH BETTER squeezed in tight. Having too much space between them really spoils the look I think, and also takes up more room on the table! So some of my 20-strong units of heavy infantry actually have an extra figure or two, so they are 21 or 22.

With archers though they can get a bit cramped, they seem to take up more room, especially if in shooting and knocking poses.

So another option for a mixed 'bill & bow' unit is to have the central 100x50 (or two 50x50s) packed in a bit closer, perhaps 12 figures (mostly men-at-arms and billmen, perhaps an archer or two), and the flanking 50x50s can have 4 archers each.

I think around 20 is a good number of figures for this sort of unit.

Of course the Hail Caesar rules (and I'm sure most historical rulesets these days) aren't too bothered with how you base your figures, anything goes. It would makes sense for it to be broadly consistent for both sides.... but I don't think it really matters. Though if you are playing solo, so presumably doing both sides yourself, you can of course decide on your preferred unit size and basing method and keep it consistent!


Another thought with using 50x50 bases (or 50x60 or whatever) for mixed units - you don't have to be committed to just having mixed 'bill and bow' units. Switch the bases around to make up pure archer and pure bill units for games if you want. Paint up a few extra 50x50s to give you more options. You might find having every unit in the game more or less the same could be a bit boring, and someday will want to arrange the armies differently, separating the bills and bows, or having both separate and mixed units on the table together.

[ulverston]

Thank you for the tips Charlie, I think you are right about mixing things up. So far I have a few base sizes on order and will play around with it. I also follow your blog Charlie and your thread on here... amazing work that you do, very inspiring.