Seeking assistance on Soviet platoon level TO&E's - VDV and Naval Infantry?

[Cypher226]

Hi, as I continue to work on my 28mm mid-80's cold war project and completing my Motor rifle platoon (BMP-2's are about to hit the painting table), I feel like I need some more elite types. Naval Infantry are easily/close enough made from the Flank March STLs, and I have the Austin Miniatures multi-part VDV files too - but I need to check how they were organised. 

Would I be correct in thinking the Naval Infantry would be organised much like BTR-mounted Motor Rifles (but if I understand correctly, 4 squads, plus a mortar and MG?) or alternatively using MT-LBs?

A quick Google turns up the below through it's AI assistant (broadly lining up with my previous research):

Platoon Structure and Composition
Size: A platoon generally consisted of 30-40 officers and men.
Companies: A platoon was comprised of 3 rifle companies, and each company had 4 squads (2 NCOs, 10 sailors).
Specialist Squads: Platoons also included a mortar squad with a single 50mm mortar and a machine gun section with two Maxim guns.

So I expect a driver and gunner/commander for each BTR, with 8 dismounts (including 1xMG and 1xRPG)?  Would it really have been Maxims in the MG section by the mid-80's?

The VDV I am much less clear on, and can't find a great deal online either - I understand they used the BMD, and probably a similar platoon structure to the NI with 4 squads/vehicles, a 2-man crew to each vehicle and 5 dismounts per (including the squad leader). I understand the RPG-18 was most commonly seen rather than (probably) RPG-7 up till the later 80's? This would give a platoon strength of 28-30-ish with 8 of those being vehicle crew.

Thanks for any insight - I've got BMP-2's and a pair of BRDM-2s to paint before I get to the next infantry platoon, but as I think the second half of my US infantry platoon has just finished printing, I'd like to get the Naval Infantry on the go while I await the rest of the VDV kickstarter files 

[Freddy]

Airborne company was of 1 company HQ BMD and 3 platoons, platoons were 1 platoon HW BMD and 3 BMD squads.

I do not think there was a strict organization on soldier level, WP infantry squads usually had one machine gun and one RPG, the rest having AK variants. HQs had officer and radio ofc. Heavier support weapons like greanade launchers were on battalion level.

[CapnJim]

According to my manuals from when I was a US Army Armor/Cavalry Officer in the 80s and 90s, there were 3 companies in an airborne battalion, and each company had 10 BMDs and perhaps an attached BTR-D.  One BMD for the Co. CO, and 3 platoons x 3 squads/BMDs.  The BTR-D was for the AGLs.  Each BMD had a crew of 3, and could dismount 4 soldiers, and each "squad" did indeed field an RPG and an LMG.  The Plt. Cdr. rode in one of the squad BMDs, just as in the Motor Rifle units.  BMD-mounted airborne platoons were smaller than the Motor Rifle units.  At full strength, a BMD-mounted airborne company only had about 85 men in it (6 officers and 79 enlisted).

I'm still looking for my references for Naval infantry.  It has to be around here somewhere...

[Rick]

VDV squads are easy to work out - they always have a 7-man squad; any vehicles have a 2-man crew and 5 dismounts, whether it's a BMD, BTR-D or a light truck, and in air assault units, with no vehicles, all 7 are the 'dismounted' squad.
3 squads plus a platoon commander, and/or a starshiy sarzhant and you have your platoon.

[Jemima Fawr]

Wot they said.  The VDV also uniquely had the RPG-16 in lieu of the RPG-7.  However, as larger, more powerful rounds were developed for the RPG-7 (the RPG-16 being limited by barrel-calibre), the RPG-7D steadily replaced the RPG-16 again in the VDV during the 1980s.

[Cypher226]

That's really helpful, thank you all. 

I guess I'll start with the VDV after all (probably under strength so the RPGs will bring them up to full complement) as their numbers should make them quicker to turn out.

If anyone can turn up some definitive answers for the Naval Infantry I'd be very keen to see them 

[Moriarty]

Remember there could be differences between the ‘official’ TOE, and the ‘actual’.

[Freddy]

Remember there could be differences between the ‘official’ TOE, and the ‘actual’.

Indeed, in Afghanistan BMD squads were only 3-4 strong.

[Rick]

Indeed, in Afghanistan BMD squads were only 3-4 strong.

That's more likely due to the fact that you simply cannot fit 5 equipped soldiers in a BMD and close the doors! 

[cuprum]

I'm very busy now, but in a couple of days I'll try to find the information you're interested in.



The Red Army began to remove Maxim machine guns from service during World War II. And they were removed from the army immediately after its completion. They were replaced by Goryunov machine guns (SG-43) 

[Cypher226]

The Red Army began to remove Maxim machine guns from service during World War II. And they were removed from the army immediately after its completion. They were replaced by Goryunov machine guns (SG-43) 

I did think that was a suspect detail. Many thanks for the structure chart, incredibly helpful.  If you the same/similar for Naval Infantry that would be amazing.  No massive rush, I'm just about to start painting BMP-2's so I've got plenty to go on with   

That's more likely due to the fact that you simply cannot fit 5 equipped soldiers in a BMD and close the doors!

All clown car-esque hilarity aside, I imagine much of the time the units were understrength so there wouldn't have been a problem posed by additional bodies having nowhere to ride?

[Rick]

Well I have looked and I simply cannot find anything to support the idea that Naval Infantry platoons had 4 sections. All the information I have is that they were organised and equipped very much like the BTR-equipped Army units (even to later adding a Company support platoon of 2 vehicles), apart obviously from the 1 company per regiment equipped with BMD's as an airborne NI unit, so this is what I'd suggest but if anyone has any other info?
The only reference I have which might be close is the Regt. Recce Company which had a CHQ in BTR, a platoon of 3 BTR (the same as a standard NI platoon) and 2 platoons of 3 BRDM, which replaced the earlier PT-76 equipped Company. Oddly enough, the Russian VDV Recce Company in the Balkans (1990's) used a similar organisation, being equipped with BTR-80's and the 2+5 squad organisation.
Hope this helps.

[cuprum]

I'm back!












Here is T-64

[Rick]

Do you have a date for that organisation? I only ask because the information I have suggests that the PT-76 was no.longer used by the mid 80's? Also the T-55's were being replaced by T-72's around the same time? I'll see if I can narrow down the dates on the information I have.
Interesting that you also have the usual 3 squads to a platoon organisation - was the 4 squad (and maxim) a ww2 organisation?

[cuprum]

Here is the book from which these tables are taken. Published in 1991.
I think that rearmament to more modern weapons occurred gradually, in different units - at different times.



As for the units of the USSR Marine Corps during the Second World War, there were two types. The first was formed at the naval bases as the front approached these bases. These were, in fact, improvised military units that could have a variety of structures and weapons available to the navy in this area. They usually had a naval uniform (there were simply no other in the naval warehouses). Other units of the Marine Corps were formed according to general army organizational principles, only the soldiers in these units were transferred from the navy. They had standard infantry uniforms with only elements of the naval uniform (naval striped vest, sailor cap, naval belt, etc.).