Non-spell magic systems

[gloriousbattle]

Thinking about trying to create some kind of semi-ad hoc magic system for Oed D&D, if that makes any sense.  Something where the wizards themselves almost don't know what they can do.  Trouble is, I'm hitting a mental block on this.

Any help?  The only game I can think of that had a magic system without a spell list was Stormbringer which had a kind of a magic system where the sorcerer summoned a demon and got various types of aid from him.

Others?

[DS615]

In our old system, we used "Rune Magic".
Wizards would create magical effects by tracing our glowing runes in the air, the more potent the effect, the more runes required, and so the longer it takes.

The wizard is unlimited in their abilities to do things, they can cast a spell to do whatever.
It's not a cool as it sounds, when human beings are presented with unlimited possibilities, they have a ridiculous time trying to think of just one thing.  More often than not, the wizards would end up doing nothing because they took too long to decide on what to do.

The DM has the say on how many runes are required (an therefore how long it takes), so anything absurd or game ending can be sort of "vetoed" in that manner.

[Doomhippie]

That sounds like a cool idea. How about using different dice or tokens, depicting certain runes with a general meaning like "fire", "protection", "strength" and then put them into a cup and draw a certain number of them and see what you get. Then construct some kind of effect from that... Hm, coming to think about it, I could use that system for my own game... 

[B. Basiliscus]

That dice idea sounds like it would be great, even if it seems to lack a certain substance to me.
If that's the way you go, try flipping a coin or something to see whether the damage effect/ helpful effect hits the enemy or the party.

[P_Clapham]

Systems with free-form magic rules

Desolation - by Grey Malkin games, currently in print.  Based off the pulp Hollow Earth Expedition, Desolation doesn't have spells, instead magical traditions.  A necromancer who manipulates the forces of life and death cannot throw a fireball, while an elemental can't raise the dead.  Each tradition gives a sample list of what they can and cannot do, the more powerful spells require more success.  Every die that doesn't turn up a success translates into non-lethal damage called burn, the price a caster pays in channeling otherworldly energies.  Overall I rather like the game and magic system.

Corum - by Darcsyde Productions, available at the Chaosium site.  This system doesn't have spells exactly, instead there are chaotic effects which you then combine into spells / chaotic melds.  In this the system isn't too unlike the old Runquest sorcery rules, where you had a handful of simple effects combined into complex and subtle enchantments.  It's an okay system, but I'd rather modify it with the RQ sorcery rules.

The Unknown East - By Chaosium, available at their site.  Eastern Sorcery involves 'spheres of influence' and 'runes of power'.  Earth and Spirit being examples of the former, Diminution and Transmutation as examples of the former.  Both the spheres and the runes are based on a wheel, with certain abilities opposite each other.  A sorcerer picks one Sphere and one Rune in which to specialize, these are the easiest and cheapest 'spells' to cast.  With the sphere of Fire and the Rune of creation setting your foes on fire is easy.  Transmuting plants would be exceedingly hard and costly.

Hope this helps!

[gloriousbattle]

Thanks guys, these are all good idea generators.  I'll let 'em rot in that compost heap I call my brain, and see what new perfumes arise... 

[gloriousbattle]

Thanks for all of these guys.

I was thinking (based on a hodge-podge of some of this, and stuff I found on other sites) that I might come up with something where the wizard really just knew how to communicate with spirits, and, since everything has a spirit, he might be able to bargain with or threaten it into doing what he wants.

Spirits might be: sword, wine, tree, hill, pool, bear, corpse, flame, etc., ad infinitum.  Each could grant powers based on its nature; e.g. a tree spirit might give you great strength and resistence, but could not make you fly.  Obviously, only the spirits that were locally present for the wizard to talk to could be contacted.

This might make finding something's "true name" a great treasure, as it might give the wizard absolute power over a particular spirit.

What do you think?

[Doomhippie]

In theory it sounds great. But does it work for a tabletop game? I could imagine building a rpg campaign around a wizard's quest for a true name. I think it might be an idea for Ars Magica.

On the other hand give it a try. If it works out, tell us about it.

[Mainly28s]

Try these- http://mainly28s.com/rules/0FANT.Prince.August.html, Prince August rules from many, many years ago.

[gloriousbattle]

In theory it sounds great. But does it work for a tabletop game? I could imagine building a rpg campaign around a wizard's quest for a true name. I think it might be an idea for Ars Magica.

On the other hand give it a try. If it works out, tell us about it.

Yeah, it seems like it would not be good for a really combat-heavy system with lots of dungeon crawls, but, who knows?

Try these- http://mainly28s.com/rules/0FANT.Prince.August.html, Prince August rules from many, many years ago.

Thanks!  Going there now.