Author Topic: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920 (Read 24842 times)

David · « **on:** 06 December 2010, 10:30:08 AM »

I plan to build a polish force on this raid, have some free time since i am snow in today
http://derela.republika.pl/kovel.htm
The marching order was as follows: advance guard, 3 Ford and 1 White armoured cars, half a battalion of infantry in trucks and half a battery of artillery tow by trucks.
Ratno, the column encountered heavy fire which was silenced by the swift entrance of the advance guard into the village.
was going to use T&T rules for this game.
Does anybody have any uniform information on 12th Soviet Army 58 Division? 1920
I have had look on the net for pictures of the village, but no luck.
Any clues to what it would look like ?
Thanks
David

Mark Plant · « **Reply #1 on:** 06 December 2010, 06:39:45 PM »

The Soviets would have looked like any other Red Army I imagine.

Ratno looked more or less like this:

Mark Plant · « **Reply #2 on:** 06 December 2010, 07:17:56 PM »

The church

http://vlad-hunrider.livejournal.com/389540.html

A Google search under "traditional Ukrainian buildings" turns up a bunch of stuff:
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/tolokonov/tolokonov0908/tolokonov090800006/5292309-western-ukrainian-traditional-village-old-houses.jpg
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/sulimak/sulimak0810/sulimak081000024/3767180-traditional-ukrainian-homestead-in-pyrogovo-ethnic-park.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/98193/98193,1197948247,1/stock-photo-traditional-ukrainian-house-7897432.jpg

(I know that technically Ratne will have its own style, but its not like most wargamers have enough variety of buildings to do that.)

David · « **Reply #3 on:** 06 December 2010, 09:20:31 PM »

Thanks Mark
After having a search, and the pictures are ok for the country side and the outskirts of the village.
The centre of town will look like the building in this picture, plus the church (which seen to be at the crossroads).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kovel
David

koz10 · « **Reply #4 on:** 06 December 2010, 09:50:23 PM »

Very cool sounding scenario. Keep it coming!

David · « **Reply #5 on:** 07 December 2010, 05:56:35 PM »

what i need
3 Ford armoured cars Company B

CamouflageThe cars were painted in a camouflage pattern of four colours: ochre, brown, grey and olive-green patches, separated with thin black stripes. The Polish nationality sign in the mid- and late 1920s was the white and red shield, with slant division line; painted on the side (in the early 1920s, they had no nationality marks).
Some of the cars had their own names, like: "Osa" (Wasp), "Bąk" (Gadfly), "Mucha" (Fly), "Komar" (Gnat), but it is not clear, since when they were painted.
Armament and armour:The armament was one water-cooled machine gun 7.92mm Maxim 08/15, or 05/s, with 1250 rounds, in a revolving turret. The crew should also have 25 hand grenades.
The armour thickness was 8mm (vertical plates) and 3mm (upper plates), the bottom was wooden. The armour was protecting against AP rifle bullets from 300m, against regular rifle bullets from all distances. Armour weight was about 590 kg.
1 White armoured cars, Sloppy Jalopy mark 3 or old Glory ?

half a battalion of infantry with trucks
7th Infantry Division. single (5th Legions) infantry regiment, reinforced with one battalion of the elite 1st Legions Infantry Regiment, two artillery groups, and two cavalry squadrons
half a battery of artillery

Siaba · « **Reply #6 on:** 07 December 2010, 07:20:09 PM »

Great project. Which figures do you plan to use for polish troops ?

David · « **Reply #7 on:** 07 December 2010, 08:40:53 PM »

The 1920 polish figures from "Siberia - miniatures" when they are released in 2011

I have all the russian Bolshevik figures from copplestone casting that I need.
Just need some trucks and artillery.
have not seen any artillery tow by trucks yet ?
still wait for my books, but the post in scotland is very slow at the miniate, due to the snow.
might get some by the Weekend

David
To perform the raid on the 12th September, a group was formed in Wlodawa under the command of Major Władysław Bochenek. This group consisted of 1st AC Column and two "motorized" infantry battalions of the 26th Inf ?. Regiment from the 7th Infantry Division, loaded upon 54 trucks, with two artillery batteries (eight 75mm guns towed by trucks), a total of about 1000 men. The 1st Column consisted of 7 Fords trucks and 4 "semi-armoured" cars about 250 men.

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 December 2010, 08:59:56 PM »

Quote from: David on 07 December 2010, 08:40:53 PM

have not seen any artillery tow by trucks yet ?

I think that, except for specialist operations like your choice, motor artillery traction was still pretty much in its infancy in the early 1920s (specialist vehicles for the German and Austro-Hungarian super heavy guns in WW1 notwithstanding).

Your best bet might be a Latil TAR tow truck, used in numbers by the French in the War and subsequently by others (Spanish in the Rif War, IIRC); this could pull heavier pieces, or some British Thornycrofts for light guns. I don't know of a 28mm Latil TAR, though - there is at least one resin kit in 1/72, and Sloppy Jalopy do a rather decent-looking Thornycroft J Type in 28mm (usual Sloppy Jalopy caveats apply).

David · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 December 2010, 09:11:40 PM »

Hi Chris
They were eight 75mm guns towed by trucks ? Fords?
still looking for a picture, but there might be none. this is the only picture i have found of a car

a second game could be with the armoured trains

David

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 December 2010, 09:53:33 PM »

Hm, that pic looks more like a staff car. If your only description is "trucks", then I guess Fords might go for light pieces, but I still think French and British second-hand models (Crossley, Renault, Thornycroft) would look good, and are actually available as nice, if complicated to assemble kits from Sloppy J.

Russian, German and Austrian designs might be possible, too (remains from when Poland was split between the three), but these are pretty much impossible to find in any suitable scale.

David · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 December 2010, 10:28:08 PM »

Hi Chris
I will buy a mix of trucks, since i can use them for lot of games.
looking for a 75mm WW1 french gun ? hopefully without the french crew.
David

Helen · « **Reply #12 on:** 08 December 2010, 05:14:43 AM »

Hi David,

By chance my book on "Polish Army Vehicles 1918-1939" by Jan Tarczynskl & Krzysztof Barbarskl i Adam Jonca arrived today an all the information you need is contained within this book on Polish armed forces. There is English sub-titles for most parts. If I can help out in any way just ring!

Cheers,

Helen

Schogun · « **Reply #13 on:** 08 December 2010, 12:45:14 PM »

The Ford AC from Company B is 1/56 scale. Sloppy Jalopy's vehicles are 1/48 and will dwarf the Ford.

I might proxy the White AC with a CoB Rolls Royce AC or their upcoming Austin Putilov.

David · « **Reply #14 on:** 08 December 2010, 07:26:28 PM »

Thanks for the info on Polish Army Vehicles 1918-1939" by Jan Tarczynskl & Krzysztof Barbarskl i Adam Jonca. Helen
Well thats the books in the post from Poland

lets hope they don't get lost in the post

got my order from copplestone today with the armour car deal

plus some figures to finish my red army
now i can get them to the undercoat stage, till my books get here
Warsaw 1920: Lenin's Failed Conquest of Europe [Hardcover] Adam
White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish-Soviet War 1919-20 [Paperback]
Russian Civil War: The Red Army v.1: The Red Army Vol 1 (Men-at-arms)
INTERVENTIONIST FORCES OF THE RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR, 1917-1922
HOW ODESSA BECAME RED: THE BATTLES OF THE FRENCH AND GREEK INTERVENTION IN THE UKRAINE, 1919
RED ARMY OF THE RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR, 1917 - 1922.
The postwoman won't be happy

hopefully most of them should be here by the 11th Dec

plus my Ford armour car

then i will paint them all over christmas

David

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