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Author Topic: Indian Mountain Gun  (Read 14654 times)

Offline Plynkes

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2007, 09:43:41 AM »
Oh, and thanks for the tip about the swords. It's nice when one's laziness can be backed up by historical facts. If they took them to the Dardanelles that's good enough for me, as there is a good chance that the models will be used for both theatres.
With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Plynkes

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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2007, 10:51:06 AM »
Found some nice pictures of the later gun types that Helen mentioned.


The 2.75".


And the 3.75", which I believe (if someone manufactured it), is good for the inter-war years and World War Two, so would be a nice versatile piece to have in a wargamer's collection.

Offline Hammers

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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2007, 11:23:09 AM »
Quote from: "Plynkes"
You silly man. It really isn't wise to browse Lead Adventure just after an afternoon binge at the local Systembolaget, you know.


Let me let me elevate you from your quasi-knowledge about Systembolaget: try binge-drinking there and you are out through the doors faster than a cat wit Dijon mustard spread arround its rear orifice.

...which is roughly what happened before I made wrote that post.

Offline Plynkes

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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2007, 11:25:19 AM »
Well, I didn't exactly mean a drinking binge inside the Systembolaget, just that it was the source of your drink.

So do they still have the strange government drink-rationing thing in Sweden? My knowledge of it is twenty years old. Always struck me as odd that a country seen by foreigners as liberal and relaxed towards many social issues has such authoritarian drinking laws.

Offline Hammers

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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2007, 12:26:10 PM »
We don't trust ourselves to be adults about liquer and wages. It's in our national psyche.

Sex is different. Unlike the rest of Europe we have a lot of our own territory to colonize. Or at least it used to be the opinion of the day. Nowdays it think the reasoning goes "sit on the empty space till the climate change REALLY kicks in so we can sell it dearly to the Mediterranians and other victims of draught and heat waves. Thats when we will get the real payback for having to live in the cold and dark for oh so many centuries".

Offline Helen

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2007, 12:35:15 AM »
Quote from: Plynkes
Found some nice pictures of the later gun types that Helen mentioned.


The 2.75".


And the 3.75", which I believe (if someone manufactured it), is good for the inter-war years and World War Two, so would be a nice versatile piece to have in a wargamer's collection.

Poly, Thanks for sharing the photos you have.

Here is a couple of my BG 2.75 in providing support (they are representing 10 pdrs).

BH makes a 3.75 in both with spoke wheels and pneumatic tyres with Indian crew. My friend Andrew has the model and its okay for gaming purposes. I'll take a photo sometime in the next few weeks after I've moved.

[/img]
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 02:45:40 AM by Helen Bachaus »
Best wishes,
Helen
Love many things, for therein lies the true strength, and whosoever loves much performs much, and can accomplish much, and what is done in love is done well (V van Gogh)

Offline Helen

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2007, 07:14:03 AM »
Hi Folks, Here is some more info that I've pieced together from the GW forum and with additional photos:

Mountain Guns

Prior to the war, the standard mountain gun for the Territorial Force mountain batteries, the mountain batteries of the British Army and the mountain batteries of the Indian Army was the 10-pounder, which had a bore of 2.75 inches. Shortly before the start of the war, the fitting of a new breech mechanism and the provision of a carriage improved some of the 10-pounders with a recoil mechanism. To avoid confusion, these new weapons were known as 2.75-inch mountain guns. Though able to fire ammunition that had been built for the old 10-pounder, the 2.75 mountain gun was (thanks to its new breech mechanism and carriage) also capable of firing shells that were somewhat heavier. Thus, a new 12.5-pound shrapnel shell was designed for it.

Vickers as a private venture produced the 2.95-inch mountain gun. It became available in 1901, which was the same year that the 10-pounder was adopted by the British Army. While some 2.95-inch mountain guns were purchased for use by the local defence forces of various African colonies, none were acquired for the use of the mountain batteries of the Territorial Force, Regular Army or Indian Army.

Only ten of the 2.75-inch guns were on hand at the outbreak of the war and, as far as I know, none had been issued to operational units until after the outbreak of the war. As only eight additional 2.75-inch guns were manufactured during the first year of the war, no more than eighteen were available to the British Empire as a whole at the time of the Gallipoli landings. All eighteen of these, moreover, were issued to the three Regular Army mountain batteries (the 2nd, 5th and 7th) that served with the British Expeditionary Force in 1915.

The following account states that the Indian batteries consisted of 10-pdr guns. Thought I'd include the whole thing as it's bound to be as interesting to some others as it is to me.

There were two types of mountain batteries in India: units in which the gunners were British and units in which the gunners were Indian. The former batteries were units of the British Army that were 'temporarily' assigned. The latter were units of the Indian Army. The picture is complicated by the fact that the British mountain batteries rarely served outside of India. At the outbreak of the war, for example, eight of the nine mountain batteries of the British Army were serving in India. (The one serving outside of India was stationed in Egypt.)

British mountain batteries had numbers that ran from '1' through '9'. The numbers of Indian mountain batteries ran from '21' through '32'.

Greets Aussies: Indian Battery
Reveille 1 Feb 1933 p10

IN a letter to "Reveille" from Army Headquarters, Melbourne, dated January 9, Major-General J. H. Bruche mentions that a card conveying the best of wishes for Christmas and the New Year had been received from "all ranks 6th (Jacob's) Mountain Battery R.A." This battery, General Bruche explains, was formerly known as the 26th Mountain Battery, and took part in the Landing at Anzac, and every year, on behalf of the personnel a card was sent to Australia to keep up the bond established at Anzac.

The Diggers are never likely to forget the heroic men of the 21st and 26th Indian Mountain Batteries, which from first to last supported them at Anzac.
On the eve of its departure from Egypt early in April, 1915, the Anzac Corps was strengthened by the addition of the 7th Indian Mountain Artillery Brigade, then forming part of the force guarding the Suez Canal. Its batteries, each armed with six 10-pounder guns, were the 21st (Kohat) and the 26th (Jacob's). An officer named Jacob in Beluchistan had originally raised the 26th.

At 10.30 a.m. on April 25, the 26th Battery began to land at Anzac, and the subjoined account, taken from our Australian Official History, gives a vivid picture of its initial experiences.
"When the battery landed," says Dr. Bean. "the small guns - wheels. trail, and two parts of the barrel packed on a string of mules - wound up through the steep scrub of the Razorback, where it was ever afterwards camped, to a point on the 400 Plateau, close behind the crest. Rafferty's platoon of the 12th Bn., coming from the fight at Fisherman's Hut to escort the guns, met them on the beach. The escort, originally fifty, was now reduced to Rafferty, a sergeant, and sixteen men. Nevertheless it marched with the battery to the plateau, and there, with three guns on either side of the head of White's Valley, at five minutes before noon, Jacob's Battery opened fire.

"According to the plan, this battery was to support from that position the attack of the 11th and 10th Bns. on Battleship Hill and Scrubby Knoll. The commander of the battery, Capt. H. A. Kirby, went forward to the firing line of the infantry at the head of Owen's Gully to direct the shooting of his guns. Down the slopes south of Scrubby Knoll - which the 10th were to have been attacking - almost opposite the plateau, he could see the Turks moving through the scrub. As the best means of supporting the Australian infantry on the plateau, he turned the fire of his six small guns upon the slopes of the Third Ridge.

The mere sound of Kirby's battery close behind them came to the Australian infantry like a draught of cool water to one perishing from thirst. From end to end of the line it brought fresh heart to the men. But it could not last long. Although the position of the guns was screened from the Turks immediately ahead, Battleship Hill and the main heights to the north looked down upon it almost as the gallery of a theatre looks upon a stage. The battery had scarcely made its appearance there when the Turkish battery in the folds of the main ridge was turned upon it. From then onwards the shrapnel seemed to concentrate upon these guns, and upon the parts of the line about them. The British officers of the battery carried our their work exactly as if there were not a shrapnel shell in the air. Capt. P. C. Chapman was wounded in the forehead and shoulder. He was sent away and died in Egypt. Jemadar Dulla Khan, an Indian officer, was wounded. Ammunition was running short. At 1.7 p.m. Colonel Parker (the brigade commander) sent a message to Kirby in the front line telling him to come back to the guns. Kirby left Capt. Whiting to observe, and went to the battery."
Between 1 and 2 o'clock another Turkish battery joined in, and the position was raked by crossfire from two directions. As the infantry line in front was gradually being reduced in numbers, the Indians became anxious for the safety of their guns. Rafferty's escort was now a mere 12, so Kirby, with Sgt.-Major Piggott (an old British soldier, serving with the 5th Bn., who died of wounds next day), collected what men they could from the valleys.

At 2.25 the Turkish shrapnel and rifle-fire became so intense that Kirby, who had been wounded in the head, decided to withdraw the guns to cover. The Turkish fire being far too deadly for him to bring up the mules, he ordered the guns crews to drop part of the equipment and to run the guns back off the plateau by hand. On the beach the battery was reorganised, but it was found that there were only sufficient personnel left to man four of its six guns. Kirby, after working until he fainted through loss of blood, was sent off to a hospital ship, but next day he "deserted" back to his battery.

The Kohat Battery (21st) landed at 6 p.m. That night two of its guns, with two of the 26th's (under Lieut. F. N. C. Rossiter), were taken up to Plugge's Plateau and emplaced on its almost perpendicular edge, thus constituting a four-gun battery, which fired on the heights of the main range north of the New Zealand front. The remaining guns of the 21st, placed near the lower end of Shrapnel Gully, provided a second battery firing against the same heights. The other two active guns of the 26th, under Capt. Whitting, were next day sent to a spur on Bolton's Ridge, on the right flank, where they overlooked Gaba Tepe.

On April 27, when the two divisions of the corps were completely ashore and working under their own commanders, Jacob's Battery (26th) was allotted to the N.Z. and A. Division, and the Kohat (21st) to the 1st Aust. Division. All the Kohat guns were now emplaced in Shrapnel Gully, though two were shortly afterwards transferred to Bolton's Ridge to fire south, east, or north. Rossiter's section of the 26th still remained on Plugge's Plateau, while Whitting's was moved to another position on Bolton's. The two unmanned guns, with the assistance of some drivers from an Australian ammunition column, were got into action (under Major J. E. L. Bruce, R.A., who was killed on May 29) on Walker's Ridge. All the guns of this battery, like the four of the 21st in Shrapnel Valley, fired north or northeastward. mainly against positions facing the N.Z. and A. Division, the two of the 21st on Bolton's being the only mountain guns which really covered targets in front of the 1st Aust. Division.
After the evacuation these batteries were sent to Mesopotamia. Capt. Kirby, now a lieut.-colonel with the D.S.O., M.C., commands the North Irish Coast Defences. Whitting, also a lieut.-colonel and D.S.O., M.C., is at present in command of the 3rd Medium Brigade, R.A., at Longmoor, England. Rossiter (M.B.E., M.C.), is, we understand, still on the active list, holding the rank of major.
'Greets Aussies: Indian Battery', in Reveille RSS&AILA, NSW Branch, Sydney. 1 Feb 1933, p10. That the Indian batteries at Anzac had 10 pdr guns is also stated in another article from 'Reveille': Hobbs, Sir T. 'A Gunner's Reflections: Gallipoli Campaign', in 'Reveille', 31 March 1932, p29, 66, 67.  As subsequent issues of 2.75-inch guns did not take place until 1916, it follows that both of the mountain artillery brigades that served at Gallipoli - the 4th Highland Brigade of the Territorial Force (assigned to the 29th Division) and the 7th Indian Mountain Brigade of the Indian Army (assigned to the ANZAC Corps) - were armed with 10-pounder mountain guns.

Additional Photos:



[/img]

Edit: Four Indian Army Mountain Batteries served in East Africa: 27th & 28th Mountain Batteries which arrived in 1914, plus 2nd (Derajat) Mountain Battery (Frontier Force) & 4th (Hazara) Mountain Battery (Frontier Force) which arrived when the campaign moved to GEA, along with the Imperial Service No 1 Kashmir Mountain Battery supplied by the Maharajah of Kashmir.

I believe that your image (first photo) shows a gun of 28th Mountain Battery operating in the Lake Victoria region. Guns from that battery provided the artillery support for British amphibious operations at Shirati & Bukoba in GEA.

Shields were fabricated & fitted in the Uganda Railway workshop at Nairobi in 1914. These were later improved & lightened using special steel.

My thanks to Harry (Bushfighter) from the Great War Forum.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 02:47:10 AM by Helen Bachaus »

Offline PeteMurray

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2007, 02:49:08 PM »
Helen, thanks very much for the information! I've always wondered how these were used in real life.

Offline Helen

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2007, 12:14:26 AM »
Quote from: "PeteMurray"
Helen, thanks very much for the information! I've always wondered how these were used in real life.


Hi Pete,

You are most welcome. I'm always on the scent of information that assists us good folk in our hobby. :)

I'm sure Poly will get a buzz 8)

Offline Plynkes

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2007, 12:27:35 AM »
Top work as always, Helen. Very much appreciated.

Offline Helen

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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2007, 02:55:32 AM »
Quote from: "Plynkes"
Top work as always, Helen. Very much appreciated.


Thanks Poly 8)

Offline Helen

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2007, 02:05:05 AM »
Hi Folks, Here is another link for you good folk who have an interest.

http://www.king-emperor.com/article1.htm

Offline Plynkes

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2007, 11:10:57 PM »
Finally some more pics. Sorry about the delay, had a bit of flu for a while, then no camera access for about a week and a half, some old friends came in from out of town, a plague of locusts ...










Offline drferling

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2007, 12:22:42 AM »
That looks really, really nice.  

:love:

I might have to steal the gun shield idea.

Offline Plynkes

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Indian Mountain Gun
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2007, 12:44:57 AM »
Hmmm. Thanks for the encouragement, I'm ambivalent towards it right now. I thought it looked real good to the naked eye, but as usual, when I took a photo of it, it suddenly didn't look so good. I'm happy with the figures for the most part, but the gun and shields suddenly look messy to the camera's eye.

Oh well. Never mind. Keep pressing on. At least the damn thing is finally painted. I've had it for years.

 

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