28mm Skirmish WW2 Game?

[Dobb]

Hiya folks,

I'm fairly new here but abit of a lurker once in a while when my tabletop urge kicks in; go easy on the greenhorn here. 

Anyways, I've been searching high and low for a good 28mm game where me and my mates can try, I'll list the criteria in the order from most needed to optionals. First of all, we're really are gun nuts, it's abit of an annoyance if the weapon doesn't correspond correctly, a rifle is not a rifle and it has to be something detail and realistic, hence why I opt for skirmish or squad level combat in any WW2 theatre.

1. Detailed Weapons and Realism, large armoury of weapons (vehicular combat optional but highly wanted too)
2. Customizations in terms of options and gears (Number crunching is fine because we preferred that)
3. Large selections of units to pick from.
4. Character progressions and traits
5. Other RPG elements such as interchangeable scenarios or campaigns.

Reading here brings me to Nuts! and Disposable Heroes as one of the premier choices, but as I've yet to read anything like reviews or detail battle reports, it's hard to gauge how good the game is for us. Aside from that, it might've fall differently but it might not be restricted to just WW2, Modern conflict and zombies are highly encouraged too.

I feel really awful at asking so much as a newbie so I'll apologize in advance.

[Christian]

Hey, no need to apologise!

I have played only a few games of Nuts! but it does have a really great "feel" to it. The mechanic was a bit tricky to get the hang of, but it mkaes for a more real simulation, I think.

You can customise a lot of the gear, and there is some character progression... but not much.

You could also go for .45 Adventures. I have not played the new version, but it is definitely worth looking into. You have many options for heroes and grunts. The Sci-Fi expansion had HEAPs of material to take the games into different genres. Just another suggestion

And welcome to the forums!

[Dobb]

Thank you Christian. Introduction wasn't really my strong side.

I heard about Two Hours' Chain Reaction system, it felt similar to Corvus Belli's Infinity which I enjoyed personally. The demo version of CR 3.0 wasn't really that intuitive and I don't really know what to expect from Nuts! aside from great praises by other wargamers. Maybe abit in-depth look might make me consider, because the community surrounds the game is quite exquisite, unlike Disposable Heroes (I feel)

.45 Adventures look indeed fun, I'll check the downloads out as they offer free demos.

It needn't be WW2 but something in a war conflict should suffice, I'm not a big cop and robbers or mafia war fan meself. 

[mendoza]

Hi,
I think That where heroes dare, from Iron IVan is your game. It´s similar to DH, but it have characters and more.....

you can see some information in my blog.

Characters
http://larepublicadearas.blogspot.com/search/label/Personajes

[Dobb]

Interesting characters there, Mendoza. I see alot of familiar ones.

I haven't seen people review DH in detail, I saw alot of of Nuts! though. How are the customizations compare to Nuts and DH?

[theoldschool]

Both Nuts and DH give a good game but neither really goes into much weapon detail, fairly generic. Nuts is far better supported through a very active Yahoo Group. Like most THW rules Nuts leans towards RPG lite.

If you like weapon detail you might want to have a look at Operation Squad, an Italian set of rules available from Warlord Games. Fairly pricey for what you get but size isn't everything (sorry couldn't resist that one).

The game is at squad level, hence the name. A very interesting turn sequence and every weapon has its own stats.

AAR and review on Rich Jones' blog http://surfshackgames.blogspot.com/2011/01/operation-squad-dodgy-name-brilliant.html

Andrew Thomson also has some AARs and a review http://www.ajthomson.com/

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

I highly recommend NUTS! I've played most of the skirmish systems out there, and at one point was a heavy BGWW2 player, but came to really like the reaction system in NUTS!

NUTS! is a squad-level WW2 skirmish game based on THW's "Chain Reaction" rule system, which eliminates many of the disadvantages of standard IGOUGO systems. In the game each player basically plays a squad leader, and starts the game with a core squad or vehicle that is "his" for the game or the campaign. Moral/training is represented by "Reputation" levels for each figure or unit, running from 1-6, which are the target numbers for dice rolls in the game. Each figure is an individual in the game, each vehicle is crewed by individual figures (TC, Driver, Gunner, etc.)that have a role in the operation of the vehicle and make relevant dice rolls for morale, shooting, crossing obstacles, and so on.

The leader figure has some special advantages, and each figure in the core squad has a special attribute like "Crack Shot" or "Poser" which helps or hurts in certain situations, so there's a light roleplaying element. Since *only* the core squad has these attributes, not the "reinforcing" squads (any extra units in the game), the game is enhanced rather than bogged down by this. The system scales well to platoon vs platoon level games, but like most skirmish games doesn't scale easily to company sized games.

The Chain Reaction system uses leadership rolls to determine who goes first (and certain dice combinations result in reinforcement rolls during the game), but during any given action phase figures will react to developments on the table based on the "Reaction" table system. Figures that see an enemy move into line of sight will take a "In Sight" test, for example to see what their reaction is – do they make aimed fire, do they take a snapshot, do they fail to react? Figures that come under fire make a "Received Fire" test to see if they shoot back, duck for cover, panic and run, etc.

Firefights are also conducted through resolution, until one side "wins" by killing the other side or forcing them to duck out of the fight. This means that figures engaged in combat *always* take some kind of action, there's never a time in the game where you're lined up to nail your opponent…but your card didn't come up in time and you stood there and got shot, or the guy playing the "leader" didn't have enough action points to let your unit move.

So there's always a good flow to the game, and you don't have total control over your figures. I recall one game, from the "Kampfgruppe Peiper" Battle of the Bulge campaign book in which I had a concealed US 57mm ATG, and a Panther tank was approaching down a road. As a player I planned to take the shot after the Panther turned to follow a bend in the road and take a flank shot…but the "In Sight" test for the unit meant they blew the ambush by firing on it frontally. Doh! They must have panicked and shot as soon as the scary tank approached.

Don't get me wrong, tanks *are* scary and get a good treatment in the rules as well. Believe me, you don't want to be on the receiving end of a tank assault! On the other hand, I've also seen infantry close assault tanks in NUTS! -- the right way. Later on in the same campaign, a Panther tank pushed into a village by itself. The US player had an infantry squad with a demo pack in two buildings near the Panther. One part of the squad laid fire from the flanks onto the Panther's TC, forcing him to button up while a figure with a satchel charge charged the tank from the rear (passing their "Who wants to be a Hero" test to do so), chucked the satchel  under the Panther and BOOM! Dead tank. Classic infantry assault on a tank, never seen that play out in another game system. After that the players *always* made sure their armor had infantry support when moving in an urban area!

The system also incorporates a campaign and mission builder system, so you can see your troops gain experience and raise their Reputation level up in the game (or they may lower their Rep if they run away!), replacements for lost figures, battle and mission builders to create a spontaneous game, etc.

Overall, NUTS! is a great skirmish rule system that lets you play fairly accurate WW2 skirmish battles, have a lot of fun and play your game to conclusion in a couple of hours.

Here's a AAR: http://sbminisguy.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/nuts-ostfront-demo-game-aar/

[Dobb]

Great read, I actually saw your site before I joined it as I was looking at reviews on both Nuts and DH. THanks again. It's a shame that BGWW2 died down, I heard it was very rule intensive but it gives alot of realism and detail.

I understand that Nuts uses the CR system, but aside from that, how are they comparable to DH? I like a little sneak peak or preview at the customize options (Squad building) for both rule system if that's possible, because I can settle for only one to play with my mates.

What about vehicular combat? Are they both the same too? Are each tanks have specific crew member?

I bet I might have to settle for either DH or Nuts.

[n815e]

Neither Nuts! or DH will really give you what you are looking for. 
Take a look at The Face of Battle.  It's the most detailed skirmish set I've played and fulfills your requirements.
http://www.thefaceofbattle.com/

[mendoza]

Dh is very open...you can try Where heroes dare, is very easy to do caracther, we Make some about VBCw...soon in the bloog.

Weaposn are very important in dh, and very diferrent

[leadfool]

This will sound strange, but you might consider any of the "Cowboy" games.  That is where I often start for a skirmish game.  You could try the Gunfight by Chico, CA. based Flagship games, or the warhammer historical, Legends of the old west series, or many others.  Obviously the guns won't be right.  In my mind, as a fellow gun guy, part of the fun is trying to come up with rules for the various weapons.  Rate of fire vs caliber vs reliability vs magazine capacity, etc.
The beauty of the cowboy systems is they are very much oriented to individual figures, reactions etc.  A gunfighter and a few flunkies sounds like a fire team to me.