A Very American Civil War of today

[palaeomerus]

I'm afraid my idea of going camping is much more in the 'tossing two sleeping bags and a cheap dome tent into the back of the old Chevy pickup that needs lead additive to run' vein. I have taken my hyundai camping once but I like the shocks on the old pickup better as they don't channel all the bumps right up my butt, just some of the bigger ones. And I suspect local emissions laws will force me to get rid of the pick-up sooner rather than later.

We do have riots unfortunately. Not monthly or anything. Usually they begin as political protests. Wisconsin and Minnesota seem to be having them at the capitol buildings most recently. I think the Zimmerman/Martin shooting case may have been close to generating a riot but I don't live in Florida and national and local news accounts do not always agree. I know that world trade organization meetings tend to be very rough on the cities that host them.

In Texas Bastrop county had a HUGE wild fire this summer that wiped out most of the local pine forests (which are very uncommon except in that one area) and the still-standing but shredding scorched dead trees give a fairly post apocalyptic impression whenever I drive down highway 290 towards Elgin and pass through Bastrop.

I don't think a full civil war is possible apart from a collapse of local authority and utilities. I could see some states attempting nullification of federal laws they don't like and crowds pushing and shoving each other a little. Mostly because we've seen a little of that over the last few years.

But we could have some terrorist action here and there as people decide to mail each other bombs, or burn stuff down, or snipe strangers on the highway or kidnap someone for ransom. And like I said in a previous post the cartels are moving into the US with what looks like impunity for the moment and they have almost paralyzed Mexican law enforcement (or so the news tells me).

A lot of people are mad and a few are ranting rather irresponsibly on both sides, but I don't think anybody much wants to shoot or be shot at. A lot of people are afraid of having their home attacked so they are buying weapons. Whether they are afraid of a police state or of unrest or just not being able to buy weapons later there is some tension in the air. But it doesn't feel historical. The atmosphere here reminds me of when I was a kid in the 70's only with the internet added in. 'Malaise' I think it was called.  Worried , feeling a bit helpless in the face of the economy, and a little angry but not really explosive.



  

[palaeomerus]

"And it would most likely be Fed, (ATF, FBI, NSA) against what ever Terrorist flavor of the week."

They'd be involved but it would probably be police(municipal), or sheriffs deputies(county), and state troopers (and their FBI-analog, the investigative arm, which in Texas is called the Texas Rangers. ) doing most of the on the ground stuff. Terrorism can be local though it would probably ultimately be viewed more like gang or organized crime activity because most of the serious types who are good at that sort of thing do it for profit and usually that's through extortion, hijacking, or drug sales.

If the law enforcement institutions got weak then the criminals who were organized would get stronger. I think that's mostly the problem that  we face. And if they got strong enough and the law could not challenge them you'd see well equipped militias and self defense gangs arising to take care of the problem and the clashes would be fairly bloody. Much like what's been happening in Mexico.

[dijit]

Is that really what you call camping? 

Taking on some hiking boots, a rucksack with everything you need and leaving the car well alone is more what I call camping.

[Elbows]

The reality is that you can not have a proper Civil War in the US right now.  You could have a revolution or a massed uprising - but the military now would almost inevitably be on one side.  The small exception being an occasional state guard unit which would turn.

So, whatever side has the majority of the military would win in an instant in a proper engagement.  I do see a secession scenario being very realistic.  Look at the nonsensical crap going on right now.  One of the ONLY legitimate subjects which could produce a serious clash of force would be gun legislation.  It's pretty easy to just exaggerate current events to get your background.

The only group of people who'd be capable of legitimate resistance though would be southerners, armed to the teeth.  Proper hunters who are very capable outdoorsmen.  While perhaps only armed with shotguns or hunting rifles, they could put up some serious resistance.  Your average wannabe-tough-guy gang bangers would be shot/killed/arrested/subdued very quickly.  For fantastical wargaming purposes though you could go a little more "nuts" in your scenarios.

Serious economic collapse, followed by emergency cuts in military spending, leaving abandoned national guard armories filled with dilapidated equipment, and stores of old weapons and ammo.  Most military functions/police functions replaced by private contractor companies (consisting more of cheap hired thugs, than proper law enforcement trained folks). Cities like Detroit being all but abandoned by normal people and police - turning into havens of mayhem, etc.  Depends on how crazy you feel like going with your scenarios.

Perhaps the situation gets so bad, that Arizona, New Mexico, parts of Texas are taken over by Mexico/Drug Cartels (they're essentially one in the same).  Canada shuts off their border, and the immigration problem is reversed - Americans desperate to get into Canada, etc.  Corporate headquarters moved off shore, or even onto large Cruise Ships (bought for cheap when the Cruise lines went bankrupt).  They've become safer being at sea than stateside etc.  Lots of cool ideas.

[palaeomerus]

Is that really what you call camping? 

Taking on some hiking boots, a rucksack with everything you need and leaving the car well alone is more what I call camping.

If I wanted to camp in the Austin metropolitan and the police were okay with that it might work. But generally I like to get to the campsite or at least in the same park/area/preserve as the campsite before I camp. It keeps me out of jail.

[carlos marighela]

Oh Jesus Scurv, don't tell you've seen that fucking awful film with Marty Sheen  and that Irish bloke from Cold Feet and now feel compelled to do the Camino de Santiago? Tell me ain't so. 

[Bubbles]

I could see it as being a Dark Knight Rises scenario, poor vs Rich. Makes sense in this economy and what not. Anybody that hates America for one reason or another would be throwing guns at them just to see everyone tear it all down.

[Inso]

Yeah the NRA is a lobby group. I don't know any one who is ready to take a bullet for them 

The Suffragettes started out as a lobby group... and they changed the world for women's rights.

I know there are an awful lot of people in the US who have their assault rifles, artillery pieces, rocket launchers; all for 'home defence' and they would be very upset at having to hand them all in after paying so much for them. There are the survivalists who live 'out of town' and there are the far right who would jump on any bandwagon for a bit of a bruise up.

All it takes is a little momentum and you will have minority groups from all around flocking to the cause... after all, the right to bear arms is in the law...

I wouldn't cast it off so quickly. As a spark, the NRA uprising has the hallmarks for a good future scenario for a civil war... if not full blown then at least mass civil uprising.

Alternatively, we could have the vast Chinese-American population all convert to communism and join forces with China to overthrow the capitalist Americans. With so much integration, there would be insiders in all facets of life from the power grid to the senate and from waste disposal to the arms manufacturers and military. I specifically chose China and communism because of America's historical hatred of communism and the fact that China is quickly becoming a dominant world power.

[CptJake]

I think that a lot of the NRA or similar types when it comes down to it are too individualistic and spread out for a 'mass' uprising (which implies some level of corrdination/leadership and joint activity). 

As for camping...  Having spent more than 30 days at a time living outdoors and not even seeing the inside of a tent, doing so more than once, in jungle, desert and temperate terrain in all kinds of weather, my current idea of camping is the daughter and Son2 setting up the dome tent down by our pond, I help with roasting marshmallows and hot dogs on the fire we build, then walking back up to the house to sleep in my big ol' California King sized bed while they sleep in the tent...

 

[leadfool]

Someone commented on my "Bump" but it worked.  The conversation certainly picked up fast.

My thoughts are the Democratic vs. Republican split is how the country is currently split.  The animosity between those two parties is greater then anything I remember or have read about since the original civil war.  That said the D vs R split is not on state lines, as almost every state was a fairly narrow split between Romney and Obama.  You can't tell a D from an R just from appearance.  Dispite what some in the media think, either can wear a suit or jeans, be white or black, male or female, middle class, rich or poor etc.  If it every came to a fight (g-d forbid) the R faction would be better armed and so long as social media worked, the D faction would be better organized. 

For most Americans the only lasting political marking are the bumper stickers on the back of their vehicles.

The remark about the military being from the flay over sttes is very true.  Even from within a state like California, there are counties and rural communities that are very Rm and produce lots of both hunters and soldiers.  If push came to shove, and there was an order to fire upon other americans, especially say a Tea party rally, I could see a military comander either not giving the order to fire or many of his men refusing to obey.  Many would actually desert, perhaps retaining their unit organization. 

I don't think a terrorist act nor a natural disaster would be a triggering event.  Those events tend to cause Americans to pull together.  I could see a large scale political rally get out of hand.  Say an Occupy type  rally clashes with a Tea Party type rally, with the media blowing it out of proportion....

[Cory]

Even with the uncivility going on in American politics, that malaise and uncertain fear of the future that we saw in the 30's and 70's isn't with us right now. It could be though, it wouldn't be one big thing but many small things that resurect that feeling and could do so in a short time.

However one postulates it though, I find myself just wanting some 28mm squads of irregulars all wearing the Guy Fawkes masks the occupy movement is so taken with.

[Scorpio]

The comic DMZ (which is great, by the way) deals with the subject of a second American civil war. From the Wikipedia synopsis:

Exactly what I was thinking! Love that comic.

[john d law]

I think Leadfool is pretty much dead on about this. You cant just look at it as red state versus blue state because many of them are a mixed bag. Plus if you just took the very simplistic view of it, "red" would win in a landslide because there the ones with most of the firepower and training  ( veterans, hunters ect) so you cant base it on that. America is ridiculously complex and yes i think the military would just either get out of the way becuz they have no desire to fire on fellow americans or many would desert to join a side. Again a fact that would favor the "red" since the vast majority of military personnel are conservatives. The only way to make it fair and this could theoretically happen is the leftist government calls in the United nations for help ie, foreign troops though that opens a whole other bag! Ugh i hate politics in gaming!!!!  

[leadfool]

John D Law, I too modern hate politics in Gaming.  Too many ways to piss off your gaming buddies. 
That is the appeal of the VBCW and the ACW2.  It is harder to get emotionally involved with the politics of the thirties. Well at least outside of places that start with the letter I. 
Although the idea of a U.N. supported national police force, lead by a government that dramatically cut the military fighting a midwestern militia has some potential....but no!
I will stick to my ACW2 or VACW as some call it.  Nationalists, vs Communists vs Constitutionalists.  Much safer politics for my gaming group.  Then we can be swayed by such important things as uniform colors and tank models.  Our arguments should be about really important things like 1:56 vs 1:48 and which rule set to use.

[Achilles]

Well if this were to come to the tabletop you could likely keep it as general as Murdochians versus Anonymians. Basically those pro-establishment financial powers backing the structure in play versus the dissatisfied anti-establishment rebs!