Hobgoblins- what are they?

[twiglet7]

Hello,

    what exactly are hobgoblins?

  are they just a type of  large orc/ uruk-hai etc , or separate race?

 any racial characteristics/colours?

 twiglet.

[Gibby]

They're the makers of the finest ale known to man.



They live in the Wychwood and make and protect the drink of kings!


Seriously though, it depends on the source material. In D&D, and consequently most other fantasy, they're like a bigger, smarter species of goblin. They're very militaristic and well organised.

In Warhammer fantasy, they're a nomadic, horse tribe-like race who act as auxiliaries for the Chaos Dwarfs.                                     

[Powered Armored Stooge]

Yeah their relationship with true goblins always puzzled me. I guess they're kindof uruk-goblins which puts them to be slightly weaker but helluvalot smarter than your average orc.

[Gluteus Maximus]

They're the makers of the finest ale known to man.

A man after my own heart 

[Doomhippie]

In "the Hobbit" they are mentioned as living in the Grey Mountains north of Mirkwood. There the mountains crawl with "goblins, hobgoblins and orcs". As Tolkein never differentiated between orcs and goblins per se I've always understood this statement as saying there are "orcs, bigger orcs and even bigger orcs"... So from the Middle-Earth perspective they are just orcs.

In some rpgs they are like the bigger and meaner cousins of goblins, less chaotic but more disciplined and organized (e.g. D&D). Gibby has already written about the Warhammer view of them.

I haven't read anything about them in traditional folklore so I have no idea about that perspective.

So depending on what you are looking at they seem to be a strong variant of the goblinoid specie.

[Gluteus Maximus]

I haven't read anything about them in traditional folklore so I have no idea about that perspective.

According to the wonder that is Wikipedia :

"Hobgoblins seem to be small, hairy little men who—like their close relative, brownies—are often found within human dwellings, doing odd jobs around the house while the family is lost in sleep."

...so, you're probably best sticking to the "orcs, bigger orcs and even bigger orcs" idea 

[Jet Simian]

In traditional folklore I don't think there's anything made of the relationship between goblins and hobgoblins - they're pretty much just interchangeable, and moreover, interchangeable with brownie, dwarf and a few other generic diminutive folk. Actually, the 'hob' at the beginning traditionally means that hobgoblins ought to be smaller than goblins. But as has been mentioned above, modern interpretations are different, and of course it's very much been a modern day think to go about collecting folk stories and categorise their various creatures and personalities in one big guidebook!

I've recently been re-reading Katharine M Briggs' An Encyclopedia of Fairies. It's a great resource, scholarly without being too dry, and IMHO a lot more authoritative than the usual 'big books of fairies and dragons' etc.

[Dave Knight]

A range of Wychwood inspired hobgoblins would sell well I think

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Spriggans, Fairies, Small Folk, Boggarts, Hobgolbins, Goblins, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Bodrigis, Knockers, Red-Caps, Famorians, Sprites, Leprachauns etc etc are all folk lore devices, smaller than a man and mischievious. Ive always held that they are westernern european's reacial memories of monkies. Our ancestors lived with monkies, then migrated. Imaging ydescribing a monkey, based on a description your granny gave you, which was based on a description given to her by her granny, magnified over 1000 generations. Little hairy sort of people things that can be really violent but are pretty much cool.

SO then jump forward to now, to modern gaming with its multivaried stat lines for bad guys. Just nick some names from folklore, thatll do...

I always assumed Hob Goblins were ones that live on your oven hob....

[Powered Armored Stooge]

I always assumed Hob Goblins were ones that live on your oven hob....

So... They're the ones leaving the mess. 

[archangel1]

In folklore, hobgoblins were household sprites that would often do small chores for you while you slept.  They were usually centred around the kitchen, hence the 'hob' (stovetop) in the name, and preferred food as a reward.  Over time they gradually attained a darker reputation.

In the world of Warhammer, they were an orkoid race, larger than the common goblin, that lived on the steppes and whose society was generally based on that of the real world Mongols.  For some reason, though, the Hobgoblins never really came into much conflict with the Cathayans, unlike the tribes of our world.

On a related note, one of my favourite books of all time is the brilliant Faeries, by two superb artists, Brian Froud and Alan Lee.  A great read and some magnificent art.

[Jet Simian]

That 'hob' connection with the kitchen's a new one on me. I'd thought the name might pre-date hob ovens myself...

Hang on, the Concise Oxford suggests 'Hob' is a Middle English abbreviation for Robert. Fair enough!

I do know that Tolkien in his introduction to The Hobbit draws a distinct linguistic line from 'hob' for hobgoblin and 'hobbit' (though the latter is of course his own invention). So we're back to fantasy and little pople whichever way you look at it

[leutenantbrittan]

Hob is also another name for the devil so maybe they are a bit infernal...

[Deep One]

Don't forget that in the classic ad&d monsters manual a hobgoblin was a funny and dangerous enemy with blue nose. 

[fastolfrus]

Hob is also another name for the devil so maybe they are a bit infernal...

That would go with the beer in the kitchen....