Defiance Games USMC Marines!

[Commander Vyper]

Is it really fair to complain about a compnay trying to make their figure look better through a good paint job? All companies do this, and great paint jobs often add detail that isn't actually on the miniature.  Personally, I think the (non-existant) minis look okay.  I've seen worse. I've seen better.

Some people might feel the same way about these Defiance marines, and a LAF, with its reputation for mutual respect and comraderie, should respect that.

On the other hand, a company that consistently fails to deliver on its promises, that's worth harping about.

I have never seen any ranges other than WGF and now defiance who consistently over paint poorly detailed and sculpted miniatures. I'm sorry but paint should not be used to add detail, merely detail it! When you paint your house do you make sure you do the best job prepping and detailing your walls before paint, or do you just add murals and hope no one notices?

LAF isn't about blowing smoke up people's arses just for the hell of it, our about 'emperor's new clothes', and enticing other people into the pre-order trap by being supportive of rapid 'detailed' prototypes (that should be the most highly detailed and prized advertising weapon in the company's armoury).

So, sock pupperty aside, LAF has built it's reputation on honest, considered and thoughtful commentaries, good standards of miniature projects, painting and sculpting. Not sure why comradrie should even be an issue? If a project looks poor, the company itself has a dubious current and historic approach to miniature production why is anyone going to side with them?

Until proven wrong this is my take on the situation, I really genuinely hope that they prove me wrong and don't waste excellent concept designs in such a poorly throught through and unprofessional manner.

[matakishi]

I agree. I think people like different models for different reasons and no one should criticize that, or them.
My problem with these particular almost-models is that the quality to hype ratio is so low. Like the Commander I think the concept paintings are good but the execution is so poor in comparison that it makes the original concepts worthless.

These Marines have been hyped to hell and back as the most awsomest miniatures ever seen by God or man and they won't live up to a fraction of that. They're late and disappointing and, thanks to the mold pictures posted recently, oddly implemented too.
Only two figures per sprue? Only one if you want back packs on them. Two figures but four bases?

Considering the cost of a mold you'd think some serious thought would go into it. Now, I presume lots of identical little sprues are more economical to put in a box than fewer larger ones as the metal molds are the cost not the plastic, but the space here seems less optimised than a Perry, Victrix or Immortal sprue which are the only ones I have to compare them to. Maybe that's a consideration of the modular approach that will pay dividends down the line later (will there be a later?) but, even so, two figures seems a small payoff for that amount of plastic.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the final miniatures. I do think they'll be crap and I don't suppose I'll buy any as there are better, cheaper options out there already for this sort of thing but maybe the boxes will look good if they use the concept artist.

[Penchour]

I think the whole problem is with the balance between casting quality and price : how much are you prepared to pay for what quality. The overall quality of plastic minis has slightly progressed within the last decades, thanks to GW's standard and technical knowledge (whatever you may think of GW). Mantic, Vitrix, Perry miniatures, all took advantage of that evolution, bringing valuable products, some cheaper than others. WF, and now what can be seen from DG actual ranges doesn't match that quality, yet being expensive for what they really are. Cut the price by 2 or 3, and you'll meet a more reasonnable market (... if you actually do deliver the products).
You can have poor casting that turn out to brillant minis once painted ... but not everyone is talented enough to come with such a good result (or does have the  needed time to come with). If you do think the miniature range hit your needs, fine, but this can also be disappointing to others. Since I bought (and sold back) several references from WF (zombis, british line and romans, to be more specific) I have low expectation on what DG might come with, and I'm rather reluctant toward their (forthcoming) products, despite finding the concept pretty interessing. That painted model do match WF's average standards, revealing their lack of details, and IMO (and you may disagree) those marines are then far too expensive.

[Commander Vyper]

I know what you mean, but from my position, I wouldn't take these on if someone paid me.

This is about poor business execution, over inflated egos and poor business sense. I have no doubt that the chinese will be blamed for any future failure to deliver as before...

Defiance Games should take a leaf out of the book re: Mantic, perry, etc... and produce better quality miniatures that fit the current market expectations.

Also, it's not just about the big guys:

http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/

Excellent concept material...check, Rendered miniatures...check, commitment to clear information, check, kickstarter endorsement...check and the product.. excellent quality, (and the minor issues with regards to upper arm sizing pale into insignificance when we refer back to the marines in question.

[matakishi]

I like the heads on the heavies, shame about the skirts though
However, that's certainly a good example of how it should be done.

[Sterling Moose]

I'm interested to see what is ready, if anything. I'm booked into Howard's game at Cold Wars tonight - and the prize is some Defiance USMC.

[robh]

Will be interesting to see if there are any "loose sprues" for sale.

Back at the beginning of the Wargames Factory WSS saga Reidy/Whitehouse/Barry express shipped a load of sprues from China to USA to be sold to public buyers at a convention. No pre-orders were honoured with these sprues despite them having had buyers money (a large amount of mine included) for many months.

That was when the entire thing really got out of hand, delays are one thing, getting stock and not supplying it to people who had already paid for it is another. Forum threads started appearing on TMP and elsewhere from people who had not pre-ordered the figures just turned up at the booth and bought them.

If you do get offered a "prize" box ask if it is available because all the pre-orders have been fulfilled, or is it business as usual for that team?

[matakishi]

I think if any sprues were actually available we'd be hearing all about it by now 

[dijit]

I'm interested to see what is ready, if anything. I'm booked into Howard's game at Cold Wars tonight - and the prize is some Defiance USMC.

It'd be interesting to hear from the horse's mouth so to speak what's happening.
Duncan

[dwartist]

Can't say I agree with the concept of paint not adding detail (go look at a Rembrandt!) - camoulflage patterns, tattoos, patterning on clothing (kimono), 5-o-clock shadow, nmm, zenithal highlighting, eyeballs, scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........

[Steve F]

...scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........

... raindrops on roses, whiskers on kittens ...

[Commander Vyper]

Can't say I agree with the concept of paint not adding detail (go look at a Rembrandt!) - camoulflage patterns, tattoos, patterning on clothing (kimono), 5-o-clock shadow, nmm, zenithal highlighting, eyeballs, scratches and chips, reflections on visors.........

You know what I mean Dave, everything you've mentioned is enhancement details, you shouldn't need to enhance a flipper to give it 4 fingers and one thumb. I know you've bought a pre-set and I genuinely hope it turns out ok for you, but if you end up spending x3 the usual time you spend on a mini just adding basic details to soft sculpted minis then there has to be something up.

Unless of course you're using GW liquid greenstuff...

[joroas]

I'm bored now, we just keep rehashing the same old information, let's not degenerate down to back-biting each other, please. 

[Dr.Falkenhayn]

at least you`ll find plenty of Inspiration here if youre into T-Shirt Printing:the In stock Item with the Defiance Logo is going to be a Hot Seller,so is the i Want to believe Slogan with the Marine pictured 

[carlos marighela]

Well for all the scoffers and naysayers I'm pleased to report that I have some Marines sitting in front of me as I type. Detail is very sharp, particularly the weapons and the body armour. Hands all have four fingers and a thumb, each quite distinct and not over-sized. The posing is especially good and very natural, some of the best I've ever seen. Figures cleaned up easily and look like a real pleasure to paint. I'm giving these a 10 out of 10 for execution and design.