*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 03:42:09 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1686665
  • Total Topics: 118120
  • Online Today: 817
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 12:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Zulu versus Zulu  (Read 4811 times)

Offline Matthew83

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 158
Zulu versus Zulu
« on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:59 AM »
Hi all,

I'm wondering, does anybody do rules covering the various civil wars in zululand?
Anything covering the rise of Shaka to cetswayo's beef with his brother?
I'm talking battles of 20,000+ per side.
I'm not a gamer, been painting for years and painting my current zulus got me thinking, if anything gets me gaming it'll be this.

Thanks in advance


Matt
2012 Paint tally
6mm: 920 purchased 239 painted
15mm: 170 purchased 2 painted
20mm: 40  purchased 109 painted
28mm: 213 purchased 10 painted

Offline Plynkes

  • The Royal Bastard
  • Moderator
  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10212
  • I killed Mufasa!
    • http://misterplynkes.blogspot.com/
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2011, 10:37:00 AM »
I can't think of any rules specifically designed for this scenario, but you might want to try Chris Peers' big battle rules "Death in the Dark Continent." The main rule book has an army list that can be used for Zulus or Swazi, and the North Star website as a few other native lists from the region if you fancy branching out a bit.

Unlike some, the game hasn't been designed specifically with a built-in "few colonials vs. lots of natives" dynamic, so it ought to work okay for purely African affairs.

Haven't played it myself, mind, but a few LAFers have said good things about it.
With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Lowtardog

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 8262
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2011, 11:15:57 AM »
The old E R Ritter book Shako gives a good insight into the rise of Shaka

I think the main feature of the early rise to power will be that originaly the armies fought in a very sytlised way with a bit of spear throwing and insults with the odd bit of combat, shaka changed that with the use of the stabbing assegai and close combat plus his use of the amiveyo and impi drill etc, so that may be a starting point. Fro memory I think they tende dto be one sided affairs until they adopted similar tactics.

Offline Matthew83

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 158
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 04:51:46 PM »
Thanks chaps,

A few folks on other forums have also made suggestions and you know, I think I might have a crack at writing my own. (don't laugh)
Seriously, I think it would be fun, zulu versus zulu might seem like a simple matter of charge, melee and no more but there is so much that can be factored in, I'm thinking of exagerrating differences between units we actually know about.
Veteran status could obviously be applied, the older a unit is, the more experienced, but on the same basis they would also have lower stamina and would suffer the longer a melee goes on.
Natal natives would obviously find it hard going against zululands finest whereas the swazi might step up to the mark.
Royal corps could have a morale bonus, certain regiments could be armed with a higher number of guns than others, the abaqulusi for instance would be granted certain bonuses when fighting on hilly terrain etc etc.
You get the idea, anyway, out comes the pen and pad, what's the worst that could happen?


Cheers

Matt

Offline CptJake

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1418
  • Hooah!
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 11:03:49 PM »
Quote
but on the same basis they would also have lower stamina and would suffer the longer a melee goes on.

Not sure I buy off on that.   In the modern Army, often the younger kids are not conditioned to endure what the older guys are, and cannot always keep up with the older guys...   I suspect you may have seen something similar back then too.
Every time a bad person dies, a Paratrooper gets his wings.

Offline Fuzzywuzzieswiflasers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 453
    • Little lead men of valour
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2011, 02:17:22 AM »
Shaka's opponents eventually adopted his tactics and the later battles were bloody affairs. I remember years ago there was a miniature wargames article on the battles of Shaka. I have it in a box somewhere  ???

Most ancient war types rules could be used with a little modification IMHO

Cheers

Fuzzy
Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly
down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red
Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture,
torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals.
Blackadder 4

Offline Matthew83

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 158
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2011, 03:46:59 AM »
Not sure I buy off on that.   In the modern Army, often the younger kids are not conditioned to endure what the older guys are, and cannot always keep up with the older guys...   I suspect you may have seen something similar back then too.

Ah, how times change and cultures differentiate!
I suspect if we were discussing european based/founded armies your case would hold good weight, however, my point on the Zulus was based purely upon their specific military structure.
The married (and generally aged 35+) regiments would not only be older and thus of lower stamina than unmarried regiments, but would also be excused fitness building activities/civic duties such as crop gathering, border patrol etc throughout the year as they were considered 'freemen'.
I find that would hold them in lower regard if we considered only stamina/fitness, but I must concede, if the point were based on modern military fitness or purely 'experience' through the ages, you would be correct.
Regardless of the case back then, I too would rather an old hand with me than a young trooper so point taken and a good point too.

CheerS

Matt

Offline Matthew83

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 158
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2011, 03:51:04 AM »
Shaka's opponents eventually adopted his tactics and the later battles were bloody affairs. I remember years ago there was a miniature wargames article on the battles of Shaka. I have it in a box somewhere  ???

Most ancient war types rules could be used with a little modification IMHO

Cheers

Fuzzy


I am waiting with baited breath, I'd love to see it if you stumble upon it.

Cheers

Matt

Offline nicknorthstar

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 10:07:37 PM »
In the next Wargames Illustrated there is a Zulu v Matabele battle report by Rick Priestley using Hail Caesar. Its a battle from 1832, so it is really two early Zulu, pre-gunpowder armies.

The game was good, not sure if it's a good article though  lol

It's an African special issue, have a look out for it.

Nick

Offline WuZhuiQiu

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1198
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 10:13:10 PM »
After reading Ritter's Shaka Zulu, I was thinking that a Zulu vs. Zulu campaign would be interesting, for example to see who among several players could unite the most clans. Apparently, though, there would not seem to be a boardgame about the rise of Shaka Zulu, so the campaign rules would probably be very much DIY.

Offline KevinH

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 66
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 12:50:41 PM »
I just treated myself to a box of the WG Unmarried Zulus as a post-Xmas gift. As I've nothing at all to throw them against I reckon I might be looking at a bit of Zulu on Zulu skirmishing for the time being.

Offline dhtandco

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 290
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 07:55:08 PM »
I wrote a Zulu civil war article published in Wargames Illustrated some time ago with listings for our Victorian Steel rules and plenty of photos and a map

Offline fastolfrus

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5247
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 09:30:51 PM »
After reading Ritter's Shaka Zulu, I was thinking that a Zulu vs. Zulu campaign would be interesting, for example to see who among several players could unite the most clans. Apparently, though, there would not seem to be a boardgame about the rise of Shaka Zulu, so the campaign rules would probably be very much DIY.

Would the campaign suit a "Kingmaker" style approach?
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Golgotha

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2176
    • BMC Miniatures - All things wargame related.
Re: Zulu versus Zulu
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 09:51:04 PM »
I would be interested in a Zulu vs Zulu and or other Bantu tribes game I think you should write a set Mathew 83 and agreed you could make a number of distinctions between units. For inspiration I suggest people watch the TV series Shaka Zulu see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_Zulu_(TV_series).

Said rules could be expanded to cover numerous pre colonial indigenous peoples wars... Said rules should cover both skirmish affairs as well as large battles. Many of these pre colonial conflicts would have also been about intimidation of the enemy often through some sort of show of strength with casualties being at times surprisingly light, this is in part why Shaka's military developments proved so brutally effective.

See Sir john keegan's excellent documentary series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKOjaOqQAeo&index=1&list=PL0CTlSpzbtda3Cj8--RvTny0G6iGWfXWr

Kingmaker is excellent as a campaign setting for one's table top games and a version for pre colonial Africa would be cracking - problem is finding players...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 10:18:03 PM by Golgotha »

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
92 Replies
21861 Views
Last post September 19, 2008, 02:35:52 PM
by itchy
0 Replies
1036 Views
Last post April 07, 2012, 02:14:38 PM
by Paul
2 Replies
1918 Views
Last post June 14, 2012, 02:18:50 AM
by Marine0846
Zulu

Started by Peter « 1 2 » Colonial Adventures

21 Replies
7245 Views
Last post January 20, 2015, 09:13:04 PM
by Brian Smaller
44 Replies
6480 Views
Last post October 28, 2016, 04:40:06 PM
by syrinx0