Zulu versus Zulu

[Matthew83]

Hi all,

I'm wondering, does anybody do rules covering the various civil wars in zululand?
Anything covering the rise of Shaka to cetswayo's beef with his brother?
I'm talking battles of 20,000+ per side.
I'm not a gamer, been painting for years and painting my current zulus got me thinking, if anything gets me gaming it'll be this.

Thanks in advance


Matt

[Plynkes]

I can't think of any rules specifically designed for this scenario, but you might want to try Chris Peers' big battle rules "Death in the Dark Continent." The main rule book has an army list that can be used for Zulus or Swazi, and the North Star website as a few other native lists from the region if you fancy branching out a bit.

Unlike some, the game hasn't been designed specifically with a built-in "few colonials vs. lots of natives" dynamic, so it ought to work okay for purely African affairs.

Haven't played it myself, mind, but a few LAFers have said good things about it.

[Lowtardog]

The old E R Ritter book Shako gives a good insight into the rise of Shaka

I think the main feature of the early rise to power will be that originaly the armies fought in a very sytlised way with a bit of spear throwing and insults with the odd bit of combat, shaka changed that with the use of the stabbing assegai and close combat plus his use of the amiveyo and impi drill etc, so that may be a starting point. Fro memory I think they tende dto be one sided affairs until they adopted similar tactics.

[Matthew83]

Thanks chaps,

A few folks on other forums have also made suggestions and you know, I think I might have a crack at writing my own. (don't laugh)
Seriously, I think it would be fun, zulu versus zulu might seem like a simple matter of charge, melee and no more but there is so much that can be factored in, I'm thinking of exagerrating differences between units we actually know about.
Veteran status could obviously be applied, the older a unit is, the more experienced, but on the same basis they would also have lower stamina and would suffer the longer a melee goes on.
Natal natives would obviously find it hard going against zululands finest whereas the swazi might step up to the mark.
Royal corps could have a morale bonus, certain regiments could be armed with a higher number of guns than others, the abaqulusi for instance would be granted certain bonuses when fighting on hilly terrain etc etc.
You get the idea, anyway, out comes the pen and pad, what's the worst that could happen?


Cheers

Matt

[CptJake]

but on the same basis they would also have lower stamina and would suffer the longer a melee goes on.

Not sure I buy off on that.   In the modern Army, often the younger kids are not conditioned to endure what the older guys are, and cannot always keep up with the older guys...   I suspect you may have seen something similar back then too.

[Fuzzywuzzieswiflasers]

Shaka's opponents eventually adopted his tactics and the later battles were bloody affairs. I remember years ago there was a miniature wargames article on the battles of Shaka. I have it in a box somewhere 

Most ancient war types rules could be used with a little modification IMHO

Cheers

Fuzzy

[Matthew83]

Not sure I buy off on that.   In the modern Army, often the younger kids are not conditioned to endure what the older guys are, and cannot always keep up with the older guys...   I suspect you may have seen something similar back then too.

Ah, how times change and cultures differentiate!
I suspect if we were discussing european based/founded armies your case would hold good weight, however, my point on the Zulus was based purely upon their specific military structure.
The married (and generally aged 35+) regiments would not only be older and thus of lower stamina than unmarried regiments, but would also be excused fitness building activities/civic duties such as crop gathering, border patrol etc throughout the year as they were considered 'freemen'.
I find that would hold them in lower regard if we considered only stamina/fitness, but I must concede, if the point were based on modern military fitness or purely 'experience' through the ages, you would be correct.
Regardless of the case back then, I too would rather an old hand with me than a young trooper so point taken and a good point too.

CheerS

Matt

[Matthew83]

Shaka's opponents eventually adopted his tactics and the later battles were bloody affairs. I remember years ago there was a miniature wargames article on the battles of Shaka. I have it in a box somewhere 

Most ancient war types rules could be used with a little modification IMHO

Cheers

Fuzzy

I am waiting with baited breath, I'd love to see it if you stumble upon it.

Cheers

Matt

[nicknorthstar]

In the next Wargames Illustrated there is a Zulu v Matabele battle report by Rick Priestley using Hail Caesar. Its a battle from 1832, so it is really two early Zulu, pre-gunpowder armies.

The game was good, not sure if it's a good article though 

It's an African special issue, have a look out for it.

Nick

[WuZhuiQiu]

After reading Ritter's Shaka Zulu, I was thinking that a Zulu vs. Zulu campaign would be interesting, for example to see who among several players could unite the most clans. Apparently, though, there would not seem to be a boardgame about the rise of Shaka Zulu, so the campaign rules would probably be very much DIY.

[KevinH]

I just treated myself to a box of the WG Unmarried Zulus as a post-Xmas gift. As I've nothing at all to throw them against I reckon I might be looking at a bit of Zulu on Zulu skirmishing for the time being.

[dhtandco]

I wrote a Zulu civil war article published in Wargames Illustrated some time ago with listings for our Victorian Steel rules and plenty of photos and a map

[fastolfrus]

After reading Ritter's Shaka Zulu, I was thinking that a Zulu vs. Zulu campaign would be interesting, for example to see who among several players could unite the most clans. Apparently, though, there would not seem to be a boardgame about the rise of Shaka Zulu, so the campaign rules would probably be very much DIY.

Would the campaign suit a "Kingmaker" style approach?

[Golgotha]

I would be interested in a Zulu vs Zulu and or other Bantu tribes game I think you should write a set Mathew 83 and agreed you could make a number of distinctions between units. For inspiration I suggest people watch the TV series Shaka Zulu see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka_Zulu_(TV_series).

Said rules could be expanded to cover numerous pre colonial indigenous peoples wars... Said rules should cover both skirmish affairs as well as large battles. Many of these pre colonial conflicts would have also been about intimidation of the enemy often through some sort of show of strength with casualties being at times surprisingly light, this is in part why Shaka's military developments proved so brutally effective.

See Sir john keegan's excellent documentary series

Kingmaker is excellent as a campaign setting for one's table top games and a version for pre colonial Africa would be cracking - problem is finding players...