Captain Blood's Perry Mounted Men at Arms. P.156 Scots pike block painted

[Bugsda]

C'mon don't lets hijack the captains thread just to knock ebay painters, there's better targets like Foundry-GW-Bankers 

In fact Games Workshop's Banker is probably the anti-christ 

[huevans]

Check this out...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290726731264&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Rather nicely painted examples... 'Buy it now' price:  180.00 GBP.  Not a bad return for a box costing 18 quid...

Well, the fact that they're Welsh triples the price, of course. ;-)

I wouldn't pay the price either, but that is NICE-LOOKING work on the steel armour bits.

[Captain Blood]

C'mon don't lets hijack the captains thread just to knock ebay painters, there's better targets like Foundry-GW-Bankers 

Well, it was my own fault, i started it 

No, I can't deny the chap is a fine painter, or that painting plastic figures takes just as long. It's really just that plastic figures don't feel like they have the same intrinsic value as metal ones... But hey, someone's snapped them up in pretty short order at the best part of 200 quid - to which I can only say: recession? What recession? There are clearly plenty of people out there with money to burn...

Johan - we're certainly in the money 

[Arlequín]

C'mon don't lets hijack the captains thread just to knock ebay painters, there's better targets like Foundry-GW-Bankers 

It's not hijacking, it's making polite conversation to pass the time until he gets his finger out and produces more things to wow us. 

[Lowtardog]

The fact they sold at that price is fantastic and makes you wish you could paint so well

[janner]

The fact they sold at that price is fantastic and makes you wish you could paint so well

Good luck to him 

[Faber]

Hm, even if I'll be immediately burn as heretic...I prefer plastic minis rather than metal ones. Well, it is time for getting out of the closet.
1) plastic minis are easier to prepare IMO: no pinning, quicker sanding.
2) plastic minis are easier to convert. For who loves to create unique minis plastic means easy kitbashing. This amazing cavalry won't be possible (or yes but it would be your vietnam) with metal bits
3) plastic minis are reliable: ok, this seem senseless but if metal minis fall down (and this happens even in the best clubs ) you'll have to waste your precious hobby time by repairing the damages. Plastic minis finished with a decent varnish are very hard to damage. Until now I've never repainted a plastic minis but many metal ones.

About price: plastic or metal, the price is the assembling+paintjob. This means material + time: in that auction there are 12 mounted figure for 180£. It means 15£ for a single knight properly painted (and I'm not calculating the kit cost). To me it seems a fair price if you think at the time needed to paint at that level. Come on guys, a talented miniature painter is a skilled labor not a ordinary worker. Most of the times you need years and years to reach that painting level! What's the value in pounds of a Richard Abbot's hour of work in our opinion?

ps: well, GW are surely the antichrist but I have to confess that if you look their impressive range as a enormous plastic bits market...well I have simpathy for the devil.

Ok, now I'm really ready: where's the pyre?

[valleyboy]

This is interesting
The quality or value of these figures is in the painting so for my mind a well painted plastic fig should bring in as much as a well painted metal one, the metal of course being some sort of cheap and easlity available mass produced lead/tin/pewter alloy

Now were someone to paint a solid gold or silver figure for example one might reasonably expect the figure and paint job to cost a lot more

[Captain Blood]

About price: plastic or metal, the price is the assembling+paintjob. This means material + time: in that auction there are 12 mounted figure for 180£. It means 15£ for a single knight properly painted (and I'm not calculating the kit cost). To me it seems a fair price if you think at the time needed to paint at that level. Come on guys, a talented miniature painter is a skilled labor not a ordinary worker. Most of the times you need years and years to reach that painting level! What's the value in pounds of a Richard Abbot's hour of work in our opinion?

I don't disagree with anything you say Faber.
I just find it surprising that something with a very low intrinsic value and permanence (bits of plastic) can command the same price as something with a much higher perceived value and durability (lumps of metal). Of course the time spent painting them is the same...

It's all just part of coming to terms with our innate anti-plastic prejudices (and I speak, as you can hopefully tell from this thread, as an avowed fan of high quality plastic figures  )

[Bugsda]

Ok, now I'm really ready: where's the pyre?

I've emailed Torquemada and he'll be round your house with a hot poker by tea time  

This is interesting, one of the things that's put me off of plastic is that I didn't think I'd get much for them on ebay if starvation was imminent.

Technically they should be worth more than metal because of the extra work involved in assembly  

[Captain Blood]

Technically they should be worth more than metal because of the extra work involved in assembly  

Technically you're right Chris 
But actually, although some naysayers have banged on about the extra time and hassle of having to assemble plastics, if you just want to pop on the heads and arms in a basic configuration (as they come from the box), that takes all of, ooooh - 30 seconds?

On the other hand, compared to metals, the moulding detail on plastics is waaaaay better and they require minimal cleaning up (mostly). The average metal figure takes me ten minutes, cutting, scraping, dremelling and so on to clean up. The average plastic figure takes 30 seconds to quickly scrape over the minimal mould line with a scalpel...

I know which I prefer 

[Arlequín]

I have sold unpainted metals and received less than I paid for them and I've seen poorly painted metals sell for similar prices. I've seen adequately painted plastics (admittedly GW) sat forlornly on bring and buys with no takers at the end of the day. There would seem therefore that there is a stigma attached to plastic figures, which to be honest I struggle to understand. I've never bought a metal figure and thought about its future re-sale value, it's been fit for the purpose and I've bought it (and sometimes regretted it later).

There is a preparation time attached to both types of figure, so that doesn't really wash either. The only advantage that metal previously had over plastic was that my preferred sculptors' figures appeared in metal. Plastic figures were either the 'wrong size' and/or in that bendy stuff Airfix and Esci used to use. That clearly isn't the case any more. Plastic figures and their equipment is also more amenable to being produced with realistic proportions than metal, so no more .50-like AK47 armed figures, no more tree trunks masquerading as spears.

I agree that the value of the painted figures we've discussed is in the painting... and whether they are plastic or metal (which incidentally does appear to be reflected in the price structure), I personally just couldn't bring myself to pay the price for them. That isn't to say that it isn't a fair price (I believe they are actually), or even that buying painted figures is wrong or anything... they're just out of my price range.   

 

[Faber]

I don't disagree with anything you say Faber.
I just find it surprising that something with a very low intrinsic value and permanence (bits of plastic) can command the same price as something with a much higher perceived value and durability (lumps of metal). Of course the time spent painting them is the same...

It's all just part of coming to terms with our innate anti-plastic prejudices (and I speak, as you can hopefully tell from this thread, as an avowed fan of high quality plastic figures  )

Now I'm getting your point Captain
And I clearly understand your prejudice. High quality plastic is a recent upgrade. But I think plastic (in various style) is the future. And I'd be very curious to know what the Prof. ,with his superlative miniatures range, thinks about this.

I've emailed Torquemada and he'll be round your house with a hot poker by tea time 

 
Ah-ha! So at tea time I'll run to the nearest GW store asking for political asylum and screaming like a possessed: PLASTIC IS THE FUTURE! PLASTIC IS THE FUTURE! 

[janner]

Plastics have very high start-up costs and you need to shift a fair bit to recoup the initial outlay. So they are great for the popular units, but less cost effective for more specialised units/characters sets. They may well also be beyond the reach of small, artisanal wargames companies.

[Dr Mathias]

I usually only buy metals second hand, because they usually need a good stripping. I've not always had good results stripping plastic.

Pre built plastics aren't assembled how I'd like them most of the time. I'm picky when it comes to my own stuff I guess.

I have a little bit of a bias toward metals myself, although I'm not sure why anymore. Buying plastic figures for games has never bothered me at all.