(KICKSTARTER) Mike McVey "Sedition Wars"

[Commander Vyper]

Me too mate, genuinely 

Game minis are ok, samaritans are well scaled and reasonably clean. Just mould lines that are an arse to sort. The phase 2 stuff that I received Thursday not good, some quite shicking, most meh, the scenery softly detailed and just not what I expected from a company with such a prestigious name for quality.

On a personal note again I feel baf that I promoted this to people and this definitely didn't pan out as anyone expected.

[Inso]

Don't feel bad... I think that they promised a lot and really turned people over.

Having seen the McVey stuff in the past, why the heck wouldn't you recommend their stuff?

CMON has really done a number on people with the shocking quality of some of these miniatures 

I have seen pics of the basic stuff next to the special stuff and the difference in quality and scale is a travesty. If I was in your shoes, I'd feel ripped off too.

[Varangian]

CMON has really done a number on people with the shocking quality of some of these miniatures 

CMON isn't manufacturing these, Studio McVey is. When CMON partners with a company to produce a game they don't handle design, manufacturing etc...they front some money and do distribution. It's what's made their KS projects so hard to judge. Guillotine Games (Zombicide) and Soda Pop Miniatures (Relic Knights) both have great models, and components and both were KS'ed and distributed through CMON.

The vast majority of any waiting and quality issues are in the hands of the game studio. Incredibly successful campaigns can hurt a company immensely if they're not able to scale up their production in order meet demand and schedules. That seems to be what happened here.

[Too Bo Coo]

After reading this thread I've looked at any future KS pledge with much more appreciation.  If a well known brand like Studio McVey can make so many folks unhappy, how hard is it to trust so many unknown outfits?  I'm positive Mike didnt want to trash his name and reputation by 'tricking' folks, I suspect it's that race to the bottom to get the most profit, spend the least cash and hit that sweet spot, without pissing everyone off in the process.  Not an easy balancing act today....

I guess that's why, and I cant speak for others, but that's why I dropped my pledge for projects like Road/Kill and will be VERY circumspect of projects in the future.

[Inso]

CMON isn't manufacturing these, Studio McVey is. When CMON partners with a company to produce a game they don't handle design, manufacturing etc...they front some money and do distribution. It's what's made their KS projects so hard to judge. Guillotine Games (Zombicide) and Soda Pop Miniatures (Relic Knights) both have great models, and components and both were KS'ed and distributed through CMON.

The vast majority of any waiting and quality issues are in the hands of the game studio. Incredibly successful campaigns can hurt a company immensely if they're not able to scale up their production in order meet demand and schedules. That seems to be what happened here.

I stand corrected... in that case, I hope the McVeys are able to rectify this terrible situation to the satisfaction of all concerned...

Apologies to CMON for my mistake there 

[Varangian]

After reading this thread I've looked at any future KS pledge with much more appreciation.  If a well known brand like Studio McVey can make so many folks unhappy, how hard is it to trust so many unknown outfits?  I'm positive Mike didnt want to trash his name and reputation by 'tricking' folks, I suspect it's that race to the bottom to get the most profit, spend the least cash and hit that sweet spot, without pissing everyone off in the process.  Not an easy balancing act today....

I guess that's why, and I cant speak for others, but that's why I dropped my pledge for projects like Road/Kill and will be VERY circumspect of projects in the future.

KS campaigns are tricky. Even companies that are REALLY good at what they do can end up losing money on them. In some cases larger pledge amounts have led directly to more money lost. I think SMV got in way over their heads. It's a shame really, they and CMON are both taking legitimate beatings over these issues. It doesn't help that we tend towards being nastier online than we might otherwise, and that tends to feed everyone else that is already on the fence, spiraling the whole thing out of control.

It definitely pays to be really discerning as a KS pledger. I tend to really dig into campaigns, and the companies that are doing the design/manufacturing. I think it's definitely saved me from feeling burned quite a few times.

[Varangian]

I stand corrected... in that case, I hope the McVeys are able to rectify this terrible situation to the satisfaction of all concerned...

Apologies to CMON for my mistake there 

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a moment.

CMON's face is plastered all over this. Even if they're not directly responsible for these exact issues, they're the ones that partnered to bring this product to market. They're the ones distributing it, and they're likely the more experienced partner when it comes to larger volume. My guess is that through their working relationships with other companies they know quite a bit. Hopefully they'll be able to start leveraging that to push some of their less experienced partners to be more successful than they might otherwise.

It has made me really wary about the KS's they run. If I'm not comfortable with the company doing the work, I won't touch it for more than a bit of money.

[Commander Vyper]

Sorry but CMON haven't been slick for everyone in respect to customer support on this ks as youll see from the comments left on the ks page. I do wonder who lost control of what when being honest.   

[rwwin]

It definitely pays to be really discerning as a KS pledger. I tend to really dig into campaigns, and the companies that are doing the design/manufacturing. I think it's definitely saved me from feeling burned quite a few times.

I hope that if nothing else, this message comes through loud and clear for future campaigns.  For fun, people should go back and read the comments from the SW campaign in the last few hours.  Knowing the outcome today, the giddiness as the stretch goals fell is enough to make you cringe.

I'm not bashing Kickstarter, but pledgers need to be informed and skeptical about handing over any money, even if the creator's are known actors with solid reputations.  If something seems to be good to good to be true, it often is.

[Varangian]

I hope that if nothing else, this message comes through loud and clear for future campaigns.  For fun, people should go back and read the comments from the SW campaign in the last few hours.  Knowing the outcome today, the giddiness as the stretch goals fell is enough to make you cringe.

I'm not bashing Kickstarter, but pledgers need to be informed and skeptical about handing over any money, even if the creator's are known actors with solid reputations.  If something seems to be good to good to be true, it often is.

I wish people understood that. Every time there's a stretch goal added to a campaign by a company that cannot add more design and production capability it's going to slow fulfillment of the product. It's that simple. Even with what appears to be a huge influx of cash from a successful campaign most studios still can't add more people to get the work done faster. I've even seen and heard of campaigns where the company said "That's it. No more stretch goals. If we add ANYTHING else we're going to miss all of our goals, time and financial." That goes a long way with me.

[tnjrp]

Will have to try and take some comparison photos of my own on Sunday

So I took some pix but my CompactFlash card reader decided to die so can't get them out (indeed, it may have burned the entire card on it's way to kingdom come but that remains to be seen).


That said, I'm still pretty happy with what I've got. Must've gotten lucky again if teh Interwebz is to be believed. No "huge amounts of flash", massive mould lines or miscasts found at closer inspection either (there is more flash than in wave 1 but it's not excessive). The size issues seem negligible to non-existent for the most part, I suppose those mostly plague the extra minis or something. An unfortunate exception is "Cyber Akosha". Oddly, she appears to be taller (especially leggier) but thinner than the wave 1/boxed game version. Some weird shrinkage in horizontal but not in vertical dimension?

Anyway, no more from on this until I get the pix out of the card or can take new ones if the card's a goner too.

[mcfonz]

Sorry but CMON haven't been slick for everyone in respect to customer support on this ks as youll see from the comments left on the ks page. I do wonder who lost control of what when being honest.   

Agreed.

And on top of that I'm pretty sure CMON had more in-put on this one than perhaps other projects. For starters Studio McVey is UK based, if you look at the postage/shipping it is quite clear that CMON had a lot to say about that. The product was produced for CMON, not McVey in that sense. Also going by that, and I am using logic here, that CMON also sourced the manufacturer to suit their demands.

If McVey had done it in their own right I suspect that they may have looked at more traditional plastic and perhaps not so many stretch goals. That is my thought anyway. There are good production companies in the UK or Europe such as Renedra who can produce good quality miniatures. Is it realistic to believe that Studio McVey would have sourced companies closer to the US if it was just their KS? I somewhat doubt it.

So CMON has a LOT to answer for in my books.

[Commander Vyper]

That.

Also look at dreamforge in respect to quality of plastics from a Chinese producer, so it can be done and done well IF you maintain control of course.

And they even include an instruction sheet as standard not a stretch goal comment.

Wow

[rwwin]

That.

Also look at dreamforge in respect to quality of plastics from a Chinese producer, so it can be done and done well IF you maintain control of course.

While I love my Dream Forge kits, and wish SW had gone in that direction, I don't think that is a fair analogy for two reasons.  First, The Dreamforge KS didn't have any associated game components, so DFG didn't have to pay for boards, tokens, dice, cards or any of the rules development.  Second, the creator Mark Mondragon has stated that the kickstarter funds didn't cover all of the mold production costs and that Wargames Factory is fronting some of the tooling costs hoping to make it up with non-kickstarter sales on the back end.

[tnjrp]

Got myself a new card reader and managed to upload the pix I took of Wave 2 minis. The photos didn't turn out very well unfortunately (it was a very dark day when I tried to photograph them) but you'll get the idea of the size issues at least.

The Akoshas were shot with flash, the rest without. None of the Wave 2 models have been cleaned, repositioned or prepared in any way.

http://heros.netai.net/pix/Akosha.jpg
http://heros.netai.net/pix/Vokker-Keegan.jpg
http://heros.netai.net/pix/Wade-Pilot.jpg