Generic ECW army

[Captain Blood]

Basically, could one field a force of pikes, muskets, and cavalry (basic elements of the period, right?) that could be successfully used as either side depending on the foe?

That's certainly what I've done with my ECW collection.
A few famous ECW regiments were very distinctively uniformed and flagged. The overwhelming majority weren't - or not so a layman would notice anyway...
So the answer is, yes, you can pretty safely build a generic English ECW force suitable for either side or both. Scots and Irish is a bit more complicated  

[Belisarius]

Just a thought - build generic basic units and add seperate command stands which can be interchangeable - an old idea but one which I sometimes use.

[joroas]

To be honest, he only needs to change the flags...........

[Conquistador]

Sorry, Conquistador, your thread has been hi-jacked....... 

What the heck, hi-jack away.   

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

<snip> What rules are you using?  The new Pike and Shotte from Warlord has a lot of background info and ideas on how to build an army and there are several Ospreys out there. Yankeepedlar has a new set of rules coming out, take a look at his sites for ideas.

http://talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.freewebs.com/talesfromghq/apps/photos/album?albumid=4140775

My friend uses [shudder] Games Workshop rule of some type.   I guess I should base them on those style bases just for compatibility (or sabots of the same sizes.)

Time outgrow my shunning of GW rules at least for the next few years...

Gracias,

Glenn'

[OSHIROmodels]

The GW rules use the same basing as the PaS rules pretty much.

One way to distinguish the differing sides was in the colour of the sash worn by officers, red for Royalist and orange for Parlimentarian. As John mentions, the flags were the main identifiers for the 'core' units of the early wars.

cheers

James

*edit for getting my colours mixed up  *

[Conquistador]

To be honest, he only needs to change the flags...........

Liking the sound of that.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Steve F]

Actually, even figures for the New Model could easily be used as other red-coat regiments, if you overlook the blue apostles (gunpowder holders on bandoliers).

When the war started, such uniforms as were available belonged to the "trained bands" (local militia).  Different counties and boroughs had different colours, but you'd have found red coats on both sides (and blue coats and green coats).  "White" (undyed) coats are probably best avoided, as they are so strongly identified with the Royalist Marquis of Newcastle's regiment, but other colours could be found on both sides.

Armies told each other apart by field signs.  As James says, sashes for officers were common, and you'll often find ECW armies painted up with Royalists wearing red sashes and Parliamentarians wearing tawny orange (especially for early in the war when the Earl of Essex was Parliament's main general - tawny was his colour), but these were far from universal.

Later in the war, the main difference would have been the standard of equipment, as Parliament controlled the arsenals and manufactories.  With a slightly oversized generic army, you might field relatively more shot for Parliament men (especially the New Model), and relatively more pike for Royalists.

One of Cromwell's Ironsides cavalry, by the way, would have looked quite at home in a Royalist regiment.  And as has been pointed out by m'learned colleagues a Scottish Covenanter army (blue bonnets, grey uniforms) could be used on either side - fighting against the King in the First Civil War and against Parliament in the Second.

[Yankeepedlar01]

I changed it to Bison, which is what Black Country folk use to have a wash........

Now, now....

[H.M.Stanley]

Of course you could do a generic ECW army suitable for both sides ...

Parliament in the North and Parliament in the South

Now lets not be having any of that Royalist nonsense on here please 

[Hobbit]

NOT apostles the correct period term is "bandoliers" apostles is terrible Victorian nonsense 

Good sources of info include the early 90s Osprey books and their NMA book. The Osprey campaign books. Brassey's Uniforms of the ECW book. Whilst the Haythornthwait book is full of lovely plates at least half of them have serious errors, but generallly speaking the text is good.

In very general terms most armies probably started out with about a 1:1 mix of pike and shot, but the aim was to achieve 2 shot:1 pike. Proportionately the Royalists probably had more horse. I'm not convinced by the parliament were better equipped arguement, the main issue for the Royalists was a simple lack of men and that they kept loosing field armies (vary careless).

Coat colours are very much up for debate, some are recorded, but a need to frequently re-equip and replace losses probably meant that even well equipped units ended up with a rag-tag appearance. Also the regiment was more of an administrative unit - in the field units could/would be combined to make viable tactical units. E.g. rather than field 4x 250 man units you field one amalgamated unit of 1000 in a big action.

So, take from that what you will 

[Steve F]

NOT apostles the correct period term is "bandoliers" apostles is terrible Victorian nonsense 

Yes, and I also refer to "chainmail" sometimes.  And I call the monarchs from Henry VII to Elizabeth I "Tudors", even though the term wasn't contemporary.  I have even been known to refer to "Germany" rather than "Deutschland".  Clearly, I am a bad, bad man.

[Captain Blood]

And... Relax.

If the thread descends into verbal fisticuffs, it will get locked, which would be a shame for Glenn's Transatlantic quest for knowledge 

Thanks.

[joroas]

At the risk of annoying other manufacturers, I will defend my stand....  My NMA army, bought at a show, is largely Essex, with some Perry and Warlord. My Royalist army is Warlord with some Perry and Front Rank.

Warlord I recommend, because, as a starter army the Battalia box at £60, especially if discounted (£52 is the cheapest on EBAy), is a real bargain:



The Pike & Shotte Battalia Starter Army boxed set is everything you need to get your new Royalist or Roundhead army off the ground! The boxed set contains: 80 plastic pike & musket infantry 24 plastic cavalry 10 plastic Firelock musketeers Plastic bases 40 Colour Flags

[joroas]

Well, a couple of generals and guns and he has two brigades.  Then, he can see where it goes.