Dux Britanniarum game design query

[Dave Knight]

Hi

Having had a quick look at a freind's copy I was left a bit confused as to the concept

I thought they were a skirmish set, but the background seems to fit army sized (admittedly small army) forces.

Is the intention that 1 man = say 10 - 20 men?

[Lowtardog]

From what I can tell its small skirmish warbands but I dont see why you couldnt use multi based figures rather than individual models to make it a mass battle game

[guitarheroandy]

It depends on your definition of a 'skirmish' game, I guess. Dux Brit forces are supposed to represent a Warlord's retinue, so you could argue that 1 man represents 5-10 men (depending on your perception of how many men a 5th-7th century British Dark Age warlord would be able to field.)

[theoldschool]

One figure represents one man organised in groups of 6 figures. Starting forces are around 40 figures per side. Depending on your success in the campaign your forces can grow, usually by one or two men at a time or a whole gop if you are very successful, or you have the opportunity to hire mercenaries.

[Dave Knight]

Even in Dark Age Britain 40 men are not going to be enough to take over a province/ petty kingdom, so there is at least an implied man to figure ratio.

Nothing to get too excited about, it just struc me as a little odd.

[Mad Doc Morris]

If I've understood that correctly, the player's warband represents just a minor part of a British kingdom's/Saxon chieftain's army. Other forces are just 'going along', patrolling the border, building defences or fighting in less decisive battles than you. Of course, one could argue why your warlord is always present where he's needed. But, come on…

[Lowtardog]

I suppose it would be a case of watching the campaign develop and how long it takes. Interesting to see the size of a warband by the end of a campaign as you can hire mercenary bands too so your army could build up quite well over time

[Arlequín]

You're one of several warlords defending/raiding an area. As it's 'your story', what the others are doing is unimportant and as you will no doubt eclipse their meagre efforts with your glorious deeds, and draw their warriors from their halls to share your glory, it doesn't matter.



It's a skirmish game, but each figure is representative of a small group of men to my mind. We're looking at a boat load of Saxons, versus the men of a small British town or other settlement and its hinterland... that is the potential kingdom being fought over. I wouldn't worry too much about things like 'figure scale', 'army size' and stuff like that, just play it.

 

[Phil Robinson]

 I wouldn't worry too much about things like 'figure scale', 'army size' and stuff like that, just play it.

 

Here here!

[Red Orc]

...

It's a skirmish game, but each figure is representative of a small group of men to my mind. We're looking at a boat load of Saxons, versus the men of a small British town or other settlement and its hinterland...

At least in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, which of course is basically made up for the C5th-C7th, Saxon foces were tiny - Hengist and Horsa were supposed to have arrived with 3 boatloads (a boatload being conventionally 50 men). It was only later, when other settlers arrived, that they were able to send '40 ships' (2000 men?) to the lands round Hadrian's Wall.

The army of Lothian described in the Gododin (c.AD600) is 300 strong and this was supposedly the army of a kingdom (though it's possible that the 300 only represent the noble cavalrymen, and another force of plebian spearmen is not thought worthy of reference, but that is just speculation).

Anglo-Saxon law listed an army -'here' - as being any group of armed men numbering 30 or more.

The implication of all of this, I'd argue, is that engagements where 100 or more combatants fought on either side would be quite rare. 30-50 seems quite likely for a great many engagements in this period.

[Dave Knight]

Having had a more thorough read of these rules (first game tonight) my firm impression is that these are not skirmish rules.

The basis of cambat is unit v unit not man v man.

They remind of WAB in that they have the feel of a skirmish with each man rolling a dice in combat, but that is all then subsumed into unit results.  The characters also remind me of WAB.

i am glad that I have that striaght in my head.  I'll post my thoughts on my blog after tonights game.

[theoldschool]

Having had a more thorough read of these rules (first game tonight) my firm impression is that these are not skirmish rules.

No-one ever said it was. Like many of the Lardie rules it is intended to fight small scale actions, not one to one skirmishing.

[Dave Knight]

Last nigt was my first game of any TFL rules so I am not familiar with their game design philosophy, hence my question.

I will post my thoughts on last night's game at some point over the weekend  (hopefully)

[Lardy Rich]

I must apologise, I have been on holiday so only just spotted this thread. 

Dux Britanniarun games will start with forty to forty-four figures a side and will potentially grow to sixty or so figures.  This is using the campaign system, you can use them for larger games should you wish. 

The rules are designed so that you can fight raids or battles with he same forces and yet get a different feel.  The Battles tend to be more formal affairs, he raids more fast paced an chaotic.  These games are set firmly in a campaign setting. 

In term of play the game is more about units led by individual leaders rather than a classic skirmish game where we are equally interested in each man.

Hope that helps.  Please feel free to contact if you have any further queries.  I'll be back in the real world tomorrow.

Richard