Looking for MassBattle rules

[commissarmoody]

Looking for Mass Battle rules for my Imperial Romans.
I have the old WHA rules, but since they are not being supported any more, I was wondering what other rules are out there.
I am looking at, "HAIL CAESAR" rules, but don't really know much about them. Any pointer to a review of the rules would also be helpful.

[Lowtardog]

I havent games big battles for a while however there are also in addition to the above War and Conquest (by Rob Broom ex GW and WAB chap) also the Crusader Ancient rules which has supplements that cover Rome.

There are the osprey rules which I think are a bit like DBA and Impetus, those are off the top of my head

[philhendry]

There are my new rules, AVGVSTVS to AVRELIAN, which are aimed fairly and squarely at fighting big battles with Imperial Romans.  Reviews are coming soon in Battlegames and WS&S.

http://www.philhendry.me.uk/avgvstvs-to-avrelian/index.html

Phil

[commissarmoody]

Thanks Lowtardog.
Philhendry, thanks for the link, I really like your 3rd Cen Romans, I am thinking i really need to bone up on that era of roman history because I mostly know about the late republic, and the 1st and 2nd Cen rome and a little bit about the fall of the west.
The resign I brought this all up is that, I was digging threw my storage unit and found my romans from a stalled project.
I Have
4 of the Warlord games Imperial Roman Legionaries box sets.
2 WLG box sets Imperial Vets
1 WLG box sets Praetorian Guard
3 WLG Auxiliaries Box sets.
16 WLG Easter archers
15 WLG western archers and slingers
And a some war games factory Caesars Legion late republic and some WGF Roman Cav. I think that's a pretty respectable force to two depending on what game set I choose. Just need to get some Generals, and I got the first two hundread years of Imperial Roman  conflicts covered.

[philhendry]

Sounds like a good start to me!  You could have some good games using those figures and my rules, or Hail Caesar, or W&C, etc.  Civil wars can be good fun.

BigRedBat and I are putting on an AD69 game at The Other Partizan MMXII the first Sunday in September, if anyone's interested in seeing big Roman civil war battles, and getting a feel for my rules.

Phil

[commissarmoody]

Yeah, I got a whole lot of basing and painting to get to. -_-
And yes Roman Civil war was what I had in mind when I first ordered that huge mass. I was inspierd by Iron Mittens blog.
http://iron-mitten.blogspot.com/

Have to scroll down a bit, but he had a pretty hot Roman civilwar going on for a few years.

So the figures panted in your blog for the 3rd cen Legions are mostly of Armorum & Aquila make correct?
How well do they stack up to other manufactures size wise?
Also who were the Lanciarii and how come they have those big sacks of javelins, are your slingers conversions of the Lanciarii. And who are the Palestinian Clubmen! They sound pretty novel to me.

[philhendry]

Yeah, I got a whole lot of basing and painting to get to. -_-
And yes Roman Civil war was what I had in mind when I first ordered that huge mass. I was inspierd by Iron Mittens blog.
http://iron-mitten.blogspot.com/

Yes, I like his stuff too.

So the figures panted in your blog for the 3rd cen Legions are mostly of Armorum & Aquila make correct?

Yes.  I also have large armies of Early Imperial Romans and Britons, mostly Warlord Games.  I finished most of them before starting this blog, so they don't feature as often.

How well do they stack up to other manufactures size wise?

They're quite large, chunky figures - and a joy to paint.

Also who were the Lanciarii and how come they have those big sacks of javelins, are your slingers conversions of the
Lanciarii. And who are the Palestinian Clubmen! They sound pretty novel to me.

Now you're asking.  Lanciarii, well, no-one really knows for definite.  They might be a sort of elite legionary.  Or they might be a sort of legionary javelinman.  I've gone for the javelinman option.  Hence those big bags of javelins. 

The slingers are simple conversions of the lanciarii, using slings from Gripping Beast, and 'bullet-bags' sculpted by yours truly.

Palestinian clubmen are based on a passage in Zosimus' "New History" (Book I), describing the Battle of Emesa between the Palmyrene army (which had a lot of cataphracts) and the Romans in AD272:

"The foot had to bear the brunt of the action. Observing that the Palmyrenes had broken their ranks when the horse commenced their pursuit, they wheeled about, and attacked them while they were scattered and out of order. Upon which many were killed, because the one side fought with the usual weapons, while those of Palestine brought clubs and staves against coats of mail made of iron and brass. The Palmyrenes therefore ran away with the utmost precipitation, and in their flight trod each other to pieces, as if the enemy did not make sufficient slaughter; the field was filled with dead men and horses, whilst the few that could escape took refuge in the city."

That's not a lot of evidence to go on, and certainly quite a leap from there to my 'cohort' of auxiliaries http://www.philhendry.me.uk/Phil_Wargaming_Website/my_blog/make-sure-youre-sitting.html.  They may have been legionaries normally based in Palestine...  Or perhaps mercenaries...  Or Auxilia...  Or...  Who knows!  But they're nice figures, and that won out in the end!  Most of them are armed with clubs, but I scattered a few spearmen amongst them for added variety.

Cheers,
Phil

[commissarmoody]

I just read a thing saying that the Palestine clubmen might have even been germans
brought in by the romans to help fight.  

[n815e]

If you like WHA, don't stop playing it.

[commissarmoody]

Nothing says I won't. Just looking at different options. Do you know what set of rules cover the franks? Looking at the German and roman saga stuff posted up earlier dux Britannia and the figs from A&A mins makes me want to do a warband force and eventual make an army.

[BjörnF]

I love Hail Caesar.
Very good rules. The movement rules are not so complex, so instead of thinking of geometry (DBA) you can think about tactics. We just had a nice game of Romans against Carthaganians, which was very interesting because it showed very clearly the differences between the Roman and Hellenistic battle tactics.

[commissarmoody]

Great! What kind of basing system does Hail Caesar use?
Or better yet, can some one send me a link to a comprehensive review? 

[Mad Doc Morris]

Basing is rather free, as with many recent rulesets.
Tabletop Gaming News has a review, which I think is quite "comprehensive". Other than that, Neil Shuck from the Meeples & Miniatures podcast has done a comparative review of Clash of Empires and Hail Caesar (episode 77). Here's the written summary for HC.

[commissarmoody]

Thanks Mad Doc.

[Neldoreth]

I figure I should throw in my opinion here: Kings of War Historical Ancient Combat! Using Mantic Games Kigns of War rules, I've created a minimal amount of special rules and a copious number of army lists to make it playable in ancient to high medieval, to very early Renaissance.

Why it's a great game to play for mass battles?

• The rules are very easy to learn, there are no fiddly little issues that aren't well described in the relatively small rulebook
• You don't need a referee to play battles; I have a hard enough time finding one person to play against, let alone a third person to referee
• Movement is very straight forward, and won't get caught up with oddness
• Combat outcomes are decisive
• The rules are free! Both the core rules from Mantic Games and my expansions with army lists!
• The rules are simple to pick up, but offer amazing tactical depth
• They allow you to use Immpetus, Hail Ceasar, and Warhammer Ancient Battles basing!
• They don't get bogged down in fiddly list building or special rules madness!
• They offer fantastic big-battle display opportunities just like the other games
• You can actually play a huge game in a couple of hours!!!!

Also, I'm am just about to release a medieval supplement. Stay tuned for that in the next week or so...

Thanks
n.