Angry Northern Mob (finally finished)

[15thpanzer]

My learned friends. I have a question that I hope one or more of you can offer advice on.

On my list of units to paint is Northumberland's pike. Or is it? That's the question. Many sources refer to them as Northern Spears. Does anyone have any info or illustrations as to the average length of the weapon used by these troops please?

My plan was to use the Perry mercenary pike figures to furnish this unit, but am concerned the weapons will be too long. I would appreciate your comments then I can take an informed 'stab' at the unit, converting if required.

Thanks in advance.

Michael

[Arlequín]

When original sources, or quotes from them, say 'Spears', it's a collective term for men at arms and other armoured men with horses - what now appears in army lists etc. as an artificial division between 'men at arms', 'Currours' (and whatever else they are calling 'light cavalry') and 'retinue bills'.

If it is a contemporary source, I'd be dubious about the idea of having separate bodies of spearmen in any case. A spear or bill (or 'glaive', or even staffs etc) were the barest minimum weapons required to be owned by free men under law. Men armed with them where the poorest of the poor and the bulk of them would barely have any form of protection, other than perhaps a helmet. So the European mercenaries might be a touch too 'posh', other than to act as 'officers'.

As most of these types of men were in units formed from a single community, or groups from neighbouring communities, the spear-armed men and the bill-armed men would be mixed together. The proportion of spears to bills is anyone's guess, but I'll bet that the poorer the area, the more spear-armed men there were. Given that the far North of England was amongst the poorest of areas (and next to spear-wielding Scotland anyway), the proportion was likely to be very high, but still a mix of weapons. 

Lengths of weapons could vary, but I'd guess most were shorter than the spears the Scots were using (at best the same) and even they had to receive longer 'French Pikes' in 1513. I'd plump for a selection between 8' and 12' (2.4m to 3.6m).

Look forwards to seeing them though, whatever you go for. 

[Captain Blood]

I agree with Arlequin.



(Mainly because I know nothing about it, but what he says always sounds ever so plausible  )

[Arlequín]

Mainly because I know nothing about it, but what he says always sounds ever so plausible 

London Council are having a sale of bridges they no longer need... interested? I'd be willing to act as your go-between and handle the finances through my contacts... 

[15thpanzer]

If I'm honest I was hoping for a response from you Arlequin, so thanks for that. What you say makes perfect sense. It points me towards making a mixed unit using plastics with cut down pikes and metals with over the shoulder staff weapons. This should give me a height to the unit helping differentiate it from my regular bill armed units. A kind of angry northern mob, which is what we are really. Cheers gents.

[Lowtardog]

Not knowing the period, but sounds like it would be similar to a Lance...being a body of men.

[Arlequín]

You're not far off at all... 'Lance' and 'Spear' are interchangeable in this context and the continental term 'Lance' did refer to one man originally, before becoming used to refer to the followers, subordinates, or supporting elements of that one man (at arms). It survives in the expression 'Freelance'.

Normally in French sources, they often use the term Lances fournies to indicate the 'group' and just Lance for the man at arms. The English don't seem to have ever adopted this administrative convention (or indeed the chambres, squadrons etc that went with it)  and always listed their forces by type, with all the armoured and partially armoured guys with a horse and a pointy stick being listed as 'spears'.  

If I'm honest I was hoping for a response from you Arlequin, so thanks for that. What you say makes perfect sense. It points me towards making a mixed unit using plastics with cut down pikes and metals with over the shoulder staff weapons. This should give me a height to the unit helping differentiate it from my regular bill armed units. A kind of angry northern mob, which is what we are really. Cheers gents.

I'm always happy to offer an opinion, however dodgy. 

Angry Northern Mob sounds about right to me. You could always have a separate unit of Scots spearmen though, the Lancastrians did employ some between 1461 and 1464... just don't ask me what they would have been made up of, I don't know. 

[15thpanzer]

Hello

Just a quick update on this part of the project. Image below shows some of what will form the basis of my Northern Spear. These use cut down pikemen from the Perry box with metals from both European and WotR ranges, most with less glamorous staff weapons. A couple of fully and partially harnessed will act as the command which will be painted as Heron.

Cheers

[Ray Rivers]

Very cool.

Now for some paint...

[15thpanzer]

Hello

Thought I would show a few pics of work in progress on the 20 men of Heron’s command. Decided to paint them in shabby version of Northumberland’s livery rather than Heron’s blue so I can combine them with other Percy troops I have and will paint in the future.

Undercoated black then block painted in muted tones for starters. As you can see this is not too neat a stage, being more concerned with colour than going over the lines.






Next is a liberal black wash to pick out all the detail for highlighting. Watch this space. It may be sometime before I can get round to the fun bit due to work commitments.





This is the first time I have split painting a retinue as I wanted to focus on painting something other than bowmen. That said, next on the bench is the 20 bows to complete this unit.

[Arlequín]

Very impressive... I remember the days when photo 1 would be the finished article for most of us. 

[6sided]

All hail the Perries, what would we do without them.

[Captain Blood]

Save money

[15thpanzer]

That's a fact. I dare not add up how much this collection has cost me in both money and time. Ignorance (and over 800 lovely Perry WotR figures) is bliss.

[max]

A quick question on your painting method; so you do block colours, then wash them with black and do the highlights?