(INDIEGOGO) 6mm plastics Scale Armies

[Sangennaru]

I'm not going to argue with you if you dislike the quality of these renders; that's your choice, and I don't think they're just perfect myself. But I bought a bunch of DRM minis when they first appeared on the scene, and I honestly wouldn't say those early rush jobs are a huge improvement on these.

Pics of the first stretch goal are up in the gallery - splitting off the bases to another sprue and pushing more infantry and a couple more vehicles on the first.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies?c=gallery

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?p=475919#p475919

actually i'm more talking about the variety than the quality, and honestly i've never seen the DRM in flesh.
But what makes the different now are the poses: otherwise they're no better than tokens, IMHO! :-\

That said, i hope they will reach their goal, but probably plastic is a matter for bigger companies. :-\

[Conquistador]

<snip> otherwise they're no better than tokens, IMHO! :-\
<snip>

Heresy alert!

Aren't all miniatures, other than 1:1 ratio skirmish and skirmish like, just tokens?  Even then I supposed they can be seen as tokens.  Very 3D, paintable (usually,) detailed tokens but really just tokens? 

Still the lack of variety is an issue.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

<snip>
... probably plastic is a matter for bigger companies. :-\

Are you saying that because of the start-up, mold costs?

Gracias,

Glenn

[Dr. Zombie]

I rather like them.
Now that GW has finally pulled the plug on Specialist Games these will come in handy for people who still like a game of Epic.

[fbruntz]

While I have zero interest in it (though reasonable 6mm plastics for modern wargaming would be intriguing) they do remind of the old Epic, in a good way.  About 20 years ago, EPIC was actually a pretty cool, fun game.  I think they really slaughtered it with the re-release some years later.

Shame.

You should try Epic Armageddon (4th edition, Epic 40k, that you have disliked, was the 3rd one), it's a very good game.

[Sangennaru]

Heresy alert!

Aren't all miniatures, other than 1:1 ratio skirmish and skirmish like, just tokens?  Even then I supposed they can be seen as tokens.  Very 3D, paintable (usually,) detailed tokens but really just tokens? 

i tend to avoid any doubles in the same tabletop, because a miniature represents an individual model. It means that it points to a single individual, unity or group. When all the miniatures have the same look, you're just using them to count the units numerically. That's the difference.

Are you saying that because of the start-up, mold costs?

plastic has a critical startup cost, and a very low production cost. If you are sure that you will sell 10000 pieces, you can invest, say, 10000 euros in molding, and subdivide in 10000 kits, 1 euro per piece. If you save 5-6 euros per kit using plastic instead of metal, that is a great business.
For a small company it doesn't work, thus the quality has to be lower, as shown in this example.

A good solution was found by Studio Miniatures: they invested a little money in a very small mold: only 4 figures with a decent amount of hands-heads, but with a high quality. Enough to have a little horde, even though i'd never buy 60 of them, because of the similarity.
Still, that business model has a potential, since you're rescaling the whole process. Making a big mold with all the minis identical isn't a good solution, IMHO.
I'm not a company, but i'm pretty good in math, so in my thoughts there might be some leaks.

[Vermis]

The new sprues are definitely an improvement, but I think a few more poses are gonna be necessary before many people consider this. After all, you can still get the Epic figs and the plastic infantry are actually pretty reasonably priced. The metals are ridiculous, and the vehicle prices are a joke, but the Epic plastics are a good deal. Or were, I hear GW is ditching all specialist games. Still, I hope these guys get started and it does well for them, more figures on the market is never ever a bad thing.

You've got a point. The original idea, long before this crowdfunder, was for a sprueful of tanks - WW1-style battle tanks, Bradley-style IFVs, etc. Kinda wish he'd stuck with that, but que sera, sera. I should've read and posted on the taccom forums more regularly at that time...

Point about the variety too. I'm not fond of the 'it's just a counter' mentality either, and I like my minis look good as well-sculpted 'figurines' too. However, for me, some aspects get less important when you get down to about 6-10mm scale.  One of those is variety: I wish there was a bit more in those old epic plastics, which are hardly hordes of freewheeling individuals! But I didn't mind it so much when I tried to put SM and ork armies together. And looking at my BoFA placcy elves, there's not a whole lot of of immediately-apparent variety when you step back and look at seven spearmen crammed together on a strip - let alone the strips on a base, or in a unit, or in the whole army.

(Detail is another aspect. I don't mind a loss of detail as long at the sculpting of what remains is neat and defined. That's what eventually turned me off Bob Naismith's sculpts for DRM and Exodus Wars; partly why I'm interested to see if small-biz small-scale plastics are viable and can be funded; and partly why I think GW's Warmaster range is rarely matched or bettered. [Love their 10mm high elves and BoFA plastics, at least])

Anyway, I get the concerns, for what it's worth; but like I said, if the feedback is accurate, it's going to push the the cost of the mould up.  Maybe the crowdfunder should've started with that higher cost as the initial goal, I dunno. Would it have looked more achievable and inviting with a couple of extra poses and an extra grand or more on the asking price?

Does the uncertainty of SG miniatures' future make it look any more desirable, too?   That whole palaver lit a 6mm fire under me too, and put a few ideas in my head (involving variety, too ); but I thought I'd hold off to see how this Indiegogo project went.
Though who am I kidding? It'd take me 45 weeks to get round to it, never mind 45 days.

[Troublemaker Games]

Hey chaps!

Anyway, I get the concerns, for what it's worth; but like I said, if the feedback is accurate, it's going to push the the cost of the mould up.  Maybe the crowdfunder should've started with that higher cost as the initial goal, I dunno. Would it have looked more achievable and inviting with a couple of extra poses and an extra grand or more on the asking price?

This was our primary concern: Do we pitch in with a fully featured sprue to start with and a £6000 funding target, or do we pitch a basic sprue and try and snowball the whole thing as the campaign goes on?

We went with the latter, obviously, because we're pessimistic types***, but we hope to achieve everything people here are asking for. More models on the sprue for no extra purchase cost, more poses, more model types, etc... Every stretch goal we hit will upgrade everybody's pledge to make it better.

And if we don't achieve all our goals, then people will still get some nice new toy soldiers (assuming we reach our basic funding target).


***Albeit not too pessimistic, we've put several thousand pounds of our own funding in behind the scenes too, in order to get the basics paid for.

[Sangennaru]

And if we don't achieve all our goals, then people will still get some nice new toy soldiers (assuming we reach our funding target).

I'm sure you will - even though it is not my piece of cake, many people here are attracted by old style miniatures, and will happily buy them! ^_^

[Troublemaker Games]

We're also currently looking into the possibility of getting the milling machine to simply mirror the basic alien pose left-to-right for half of the imprints (there's no reason they have to be left handed) for a negligible cost, which would add a bit of variety to the visuals.

[Sangennaru]

another possibility is to make the alien two pieced: the arm with the weapon could be glued in various position, and maybe adding another weapon will be still cheaper than adding a whole new model!

[Bergil]

you said that, 20 years ago. Those minis look 20 years old already. If they can't afford a higher quality  level of minis, maybe they should change their plans. Personally i don't see why i should need "counters" instead of minis, when Dark Realm games have such a great abundance of models: http://www.darkrealmminiatures.com/

Yeah those guys have some great stuff, met them at salute, nice people too. Keep meaning to pick up a few of their spaceships and 6mm stuff.

[Troublemaker Games]

Yeah those guys have some great stuff, met them at salute, nice people too. Keep meaning to pick up a few of their spaceships and 6mm stuff.

A lot of DRM's later releases were sculpted by us after they stopped using Bob N., funnily enough.

The more limited poses in this project compared to our DRM/EW/UW 6mm work is all down to the funding required to add extra features to the sprue. The more funding we get, the better a quality of product we can deliver for everyone (all contributions are being put back into improving the sprue, we intend to take no profit out of this funding campaign itself so as to get the most bang for everybody's buck).

[Bergil]

A lot of DRM's later releases were sculpted by us after they stopped using Bob N., funnily enough.

The more limited poses in this project compared to our DRM/EW/UW 6mm work is all down to the funding required to add extra features to the sprue. The more funding we get, the better a quality of product we can deliver for everyone (all contributions are being put back into improving the sprue, we intend to take no profit out of this funding campaign itself so as to get the most bang for everybody's buck).

Oh I don't doubt it! Just wanted to chip in with some praise for peeps 

[Troublemaker Games]

I'd also recommend checking out the Age of Tyrants upcoming range if what you're after is more poses - that's some of our most recent freelance stuff.
https://www.facebook.com/AgeofTyrants